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SOPA and PIPA #1
Offline   SkylerWXG
  Druids
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As most of us know about those two, I would like to open this thread to ask fir points of views, whether this is a good or bad thing, and also to discuss and debate about it. Also, please bring arguments for reasoning.

To my mind, I really believe this to be inadequate because as we all know, knowledge should be free and not restricted, also, sites like YouTube were created for anyone to use, and initially the site was for people to share their video creations, and also, let us all admit. Each one of us have one ore more songs downloaded illegally, and don't even think about lying, because if you did not download it, someone else did and gave it to you too. Not many purchase albums, so let's all be honest to ourselves. Those are my arguments and my point of view.

Which are your opinions and your arguments whether is positive or negative.

Posted on: 2012/1/19 8:06


Re: SOPA and PIPA #2
Offline   Argoyle
  Witches and Warlocks
gold   6025 Gold
Level : 55
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HP : 541 / 1353
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Quote:

Kenneth wrote:
...also, let us all admit. Each one of us have one ore more songs downloaded illegally, and don't even think about lying, because if you did not download it, someone else did and gave it to you too. Not many purchase albums, so let's all be honest to ourselves.



So you are saying that because everyone does it anyway, it's ok and should be allowed? So, let's all start robbing banks and stealing cars: if we all do it, it'll be ok.


I do think SOPA's and PIPA's wording, as it stands now, is too overreaching and will harm creativity and innocent websites, but I also think that there does need to be more control over piracy and protecting copyrighted materials.

Posted on: 2012/1/19 9:28
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #3
Offline   SkylerWXG
  Druids
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But protecting all copyright information would mean that everything which is do not owned by the people, and owned completely would remove all music which let's say was uploaded from elsewhere, or anything gameplay related. And seriously, the music thing, at least is at least one decade old, I , however do not know about the software and other stuff. However, as it was explained in a debate sooner this month, piracy is basically stealing one item and spreading it through sites. However, what I am most at war with is the hacking being illegal. Basically, jailbreak an all the other stuff released and legal would become illegal, so as a result, would be for me to be unable to customize my phone and disable functions which are not necessary or simply useless so I could save the battery and prolong my phone's life. This would basically end the whole art of hacking, all that time when people wanted to mess with a game/software/gadget techs specs to create something new and maybe even better. This would mean the whole end of code re-using just for experiments and changing it, and all this. I really believe this is the worst thing of all, the art of hacking to be illegal. For me it sounds like eating a cake without flour or sugar. Do you believe this would be a positive?

Posted on: 2012/1/19 11:40


Re: SOPA and PIPA #4
Offline   Yuffie
  The Brotherhood
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Well, I'm not going to pretend to know exactly what SOPA and PIPA say exactly, but I've seen a lot about them in the past few days.

I think that it's really great for the USA to be supporting copyright laws, and trying to get rid of piracy, but SOPA and PIPA are too much. They seem to be a bit over the top, and I don't like that. It's good to want to protect people's rights, but making websites unsearchable and things like that are way too much. It wouldn't be a good idea in my opinion, but I suppose that they do have a few merits.

I've also seen people saying that SOPA and PIPA violate the American first amendment(?). Cracking down on piracy shouldn't have to go that far. There will always be some way for people to download things illegally, whether these bills are in place or not. We should all be able to access what we want on the Internet within reason, and these two seem to prevent that.

Posted on: 2012/1/19 13:20
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #5
Offline   KTC
  The Brotherhood
gold   7518 Gold
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Google and Wikipedia say no, and since both are my online gods, I'm gonna say no too XD

Posted on: 2012/1/19 21:52
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #6
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5460 Gold
Level : 53
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No government should be able to censor the internet. And honestly, online piracy isn't going to be stopped. These new measures won't stop it. They'll just be an inconvenience really.

Posted on: 2012/1/19 22:29
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #7
Offline   aislingyngaio
  Amaranthian
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Personally I feel "but I neeeeeeeeeeeeeed to pirate or I won't be able to get music/movie/games etc" is the very reason for SOPA and PIPA. It's like saying "but I neeeeeeeeeeed to pirate Aveyond or I'd never be able to play it" (lol). Let's face it, if all knowledge is free, there will no longer be universities to charge obscene fees, no more textbooks that you actually need to buy, and essentially no more researchers because they don't get paid for their hard work, unless the country turns into a communist country where everything belongs to the state, then everything can be free (aka already paid out of state money anyway).

HOWEVER!!! Getting companies and websites to shut down without recourse or trial (correct me if I'm wrong) is tantamount to changing "innocent until proven guilty" to "guilty until proven innocent", which is not the way we should live. Not to mention so many gigantic websites are going down because they won't be able to monitor what their users are dumping on their pages every second of every day, which is like shooting the messenger. Can you imagine what would happen if Amaranthia got forcibly shut down just because someone posted Bieber's latest music video (not from official sources) here?

Posted on: 2012/1/19 23:23
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #8
Offline   SkylerWXG
  Druids
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Level : 31
EXP : 26
HP : 151 / 756
MP : 435 / 11130
@KTC Lol!
@Mopiece I agree pretty much with you, Mopiece.
@Aisling I see the point you are trying to make there, however, do you believe that if they could, anyone would commit piracy? I mean, I am talking here about the positive part of piracy and hacking, the part where something is improved, and is done from objective reasons. Do you understand what I mean, Aisling?

Posted on: 2012/1/20 1:58


Re: SOPA and PIPA #9
Offline   yannes
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I can understand that they want to do something against piracy, artist/ devellopers/ and so on ussually put a lot of hard work into their products, and everyone expects to get paid for their work

however, I think SOPA is not the way they will be able to stop piracy, it's more like stopping internet as a whole XD, people who make music/ games/ ... will actualluy earn less money I think, because there will be less places where people could stumble on the product by "accident"
(the more people upload illegal justin bieber videos, the bigger the chance is that you will find out who justin bieber is, hence, more people who will buy the cd. And we all know we want bieber cds)

@klaus: " I am talking here about the positive part of piracy and hacking, the part where something is improved, and is done from objective reasons."

that's probably the most vague statement I have heared in a while.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 2:32
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #10
Offline   theone
  Witches and Warlocks
gold   2417 Gold
Level : 39
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MP : 780 / 15288
Quote:

yannes wrote:
And we all know we want bieber cds


Not sure if serious

On the topic though, I think it's a horrible bill. Information is free, no one has bought it. I don't have to go to Einstein and Newton and pay them for the knowledge. For this reason, the knowledge part of this bill which relates to Wikipedia is ridiculous.

The Artist part, I agree with slightly. It is the artist's right to get money.
Even YT videos, the artists are paid per view by YT. So the artists lose money if someone watches it on unofficial copies

Posted on: 2012/1/20 8:49
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #11
Offline   Stardale
  Dragon Lords
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The bill itself is, in my perspective, only in the favor of big time capitalists. Let's face it, people. Piracy online is, logically speaking, impossible to defeat. What the government has to do is to effectively implement the existing rules. There is no need to make laws such as these.

Are you getting the idea?

On the issue of free knowledge, there really is free knowledge that originated from when man began to ask questions; Wikipedia is only a means. But I got news for you! There is a distinction between free knowledge and trusted knowledge. Most researchers do not trust Wikipedia because it can be edited by anybody. That is why there are books that we can purchase at the nearest bookstore, and don't forget that these books (particularly textbooks) are usually updated yearly. In essence, a student would use both Wikipedia and purchased book because Wikipedia is a convenient knowledge source and purchased textbooks are TRUSTED books.

Are you still with me?

Hence, shutting down sites such as Wikipedia, Scribd, and the like would be more than troublesome to the whole world.

I'm not an American, but this bill will change the world. It's obvious that the proponents of this bill are missing the significance of the so-called internet liberty. And if this bill gets signed, the only thing I can say is this: "The mill of the gods grind slowly but exceedingly fine."

Any questions?

Posted on: 2012/1/20 10:08
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #12
Offline   MoonPrincess
  Druids
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Stealing and piracy is wrong, but will SOPA and PIPA be really able to stop it? I don't really think so. It's the sad truth, nothing will stop the hackers, I think that they'll be even more thrilled to find another way to spread the piracy and prove the government that they can handle their laws.

I'm personally against SOPA and PIPA, not because they are against piracy..that's fine with me, but because I don't see how they'll handle the problem with the piracy and how the internet freedom will stay untouched. Personally I won't be needing any internet if someone follows every step of mine, if I can't post what I want or find info abut things.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 10:14
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #13
Offline   SkylerWXG
  Druids
gold   1312 Gold
Level : 31
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HP : 151 / 756
MP : 435 / 11130
What I think, though, is very wrong is how the law was formed, the definition and the sentence of it. It sounds very stupid, too.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 13:14


Re: SOPA and PIPA #14
Offline   KTC
  The Brotherhood
gold   7518 Gold
Level : 59
EXP : 48
HP : 877 / 1462
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Jokes aside, I'm against SOPA/PIPA because there's no process of law, vague wording that even a non-law person can see through, and it's just ripe for exploitation and abuse. This is what you get when you have very techy-ignorant people write up a law about something they obviously don't understand.

A company can claim so and so site has infringed on their copyrights and that site will no longer be available in US via 'legal' means. The site in question won't be able to do anything about it.

Site: "I didn't know that was there! You know how many users we get?"
Troll!Law: "Well you should have paid more attention. Dismissed."

That can happen to any site like deviantart (bye bye fanart), Amaranthia (links to bieber/gaga=BAM. Goodbye), Wikipedia (all those media), google(it's a search engine that goes through links, think about it), youtube (you doing a cover of gaga's Alejandro? byebye youtube), etc.

Also, it will NOT stop piracy. At most, it'll make it slightly harder to pirate but where there's a will there's a way. I mean, the US tried to just shut down so called 80 'pirate' sites (1 of which was just a search engine NOT a pirate site *facepalm*), and most just popped back within hours.

If you want to create an effective law, they should have spoken to internet tech-y experts, not those behind the times fools in Hollywood who don't know anything about how the internet truly works.

(Don't mind my generalizations. I think PIPA/SOPA is squeaky trash. [according to the 'net, that's what it means in swedish XD])

Posted on: 2012/1/20 15:11
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #15
Offline   M0n0chr0me
  Amaranthian
gold   83 Gold
Level : 7
EXP : 59
HP : 0 / 164
MP : 25 / 1657
SOPA also suggests that one could spend up to 5 years in prison for pirated material.

Lolwhat.

You mean to tell me that I could end up sitting in prison next to robbers, murderers, and/or sexual offenders because of a couple of songs?

There's plenty more wrong with this, but I can't begin to tell it all. There was one video where a man talked about what was wrong with the big companies that support SOPA, but I'm feeling a tad lazy at the moment. Perhaps I'll post it here later.

PS: The biggest mistake the creators of these bills made was messing with the internet. Anon is gonna be very displeased, if not already.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 17:06
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #16
Offline   KTC
  The Brotherhood
gold   7518 Gold
Level : 59
EXP : 48
HP : 877 / 1462
MP : 2538 / 29174
Oh, Anon's pissed alright. And generally, I don't agree with Anon's antics but in this case? Heck yes. DDoS on Department of Justice, MPAA, and FBI. You go Anon.

In addition, the US Feds recently shutdown megaupload because they had illegal stuff, stuff that users uploaded, NOT megaupload.

What's next, photobucket, imageshack.us gonna get shut down cuz they hold copyright photos?!

I better make backup copies of my AP/siggies/artwork/etc. stuff since rapidsharre/photobucket/imageshack.us might be next...

IN ADDITION:
Megaupload already had a policy of getting rid of illegal content when it's reported. Just like rapidshare, youtube, and mediafire. Only now the US Feds say we're gonna shut you down anyway. *major facepalm*

So basically any online file storage website is in danger of being shut down for content users put up regardless of their existing policy concerning illegal content. I really hate how my country's actions makes no sense at all.

I'm gonna go backup my stuff now *fumes*

Posted on: 2012/1/20 17:16
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #17
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5460 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 10
HP : 521 / 1302
MP : 1810 / 24988
Surprisingly, it looks like Congress is listening to the protests. The bill has been halted by the senate leader.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 17:49
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #18
Offline   KTC
  The Brotherhood
gold   7518 Gold
Level : 59
EXP : 48
HP : 877 / 1462
MP : 2538 / 29174
Not halted, just delayed to February at least. Sides, we still got PIPA to worry about. I bet they think this internet protest will just blow over and be forgotten. Than they can pass both with little fuss.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 17:54
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #19
Offline   Ashen_Eclipse
  Witches and Warlocks
gold   1050 Gold
Level : 27
EXP : 32
HP : 0 / 658
MP : 314 / 10521
I think that you'll find with the recent taking down of megaupload that there will be a lot more people fighting. Did megaupload have a lot of illegal content? Yes. But it was also used for perfectly legal things, and should not have been taken down. And if SOPA/PIPA passes, then there will be a lot more of it.

And it still wont stop piracy- people will find a way to get around it. And honestly, I think SOPA/PIPA will actually -increase- piracy. Because instead of streaming things on youtube, for example, people will download music/video instead.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 18:31
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Re: SOPA and PIPA #20
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5460 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 10
HP : 521 / 1302
MP : 1810 / 24988
I don't think it'll pass that easily, if it does pass. It's losing a lot of support in Congress. Nor do I think people will lose interest and stop protesting.

Posted on: 2012/1/20 18:35
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