Basically all of it.

@moony
read my signature

@ktc

Devin and talia all the way! Alicia's been dead for years now, he has to get over her! Talia can help him. Plus, she's immortal, he's immortal. Alicia sure wasn't. *wink*

@elemental: ahh come on. it couldn't be *that* traumatizing

@pink: I was only pointing to the love triangle that is talia/devin/alicia and comparing to the lack of love conflict for Ean/Iya.

Ean/Iya are like soulmates throughout the whole game and NO one competed for either Ean or Iya.

oh, I wasn't arguing with you. I was just stating what I thought using ur info...

Rhen the hermit? Blech. She's a QUEEN, a QUEEN.

@esme: it's a legitimate ending. I don't see any reason NOT to exploit it

Sides, having a straight out of fighting school peasant girl be a queen makes would make me scared as a citizen. That means she has no idea how to run a country, deal with politicians, doesn't know all the required manners to not offend important people, and everything else. I don't care how popular she is, Rhen is simply NOT qualified to run as queen realistically. She would most likely be a figurehead.

We can see this in RL politics where the popular person fails utterly at running a country. Ulysses E Grant and it was horrible. We have another with Arnold Schwarzenegger and he sucks. There's probably more NOT from US history, but I don't know them.

As a queen, she would be placed on a pedestal so all her movements would be critique in excruciating detail. This doesn't sound like a free life which is what she's used to.

At least as a hermit, she can do whatever the heck she wants without worrying about people's opinions. She can be herself freely which sounds a lot better than any amount of power in the world.

"The reign of Rhen the Great and Dameon the noble found its way into history books and later into legend."

That ending clearly states that whatever her "qualifications" may have been, Rhen was an awesome queen. :p

@esme: and history books are written by the victors. They wouldn't write anything else of Rhen given that she's popular and saved the world. When's the last time anyone bashed their hero? You'd be crucified if you did that. (copernicus for the heliocentric idea for example)

This doesn't mean she was 'good' at it. It means whoever wrote the history was very good at spinning a good tale which warps into something else. Rarely does a story stay the same with each retelling.

Lincoln for example is glorified as the one who supported the end of slavery in most history books. But he actually thought keeping US together was more important than slavery. He would have kept slavery if it meant US can stay together.

But most people still only know him as the dude who supported ending slavery and being all just.

And don't even get me started on Columbus. *grumbles at the stupid amount of propaganda 'taught' in classes today*

See where I'm getting?

I see you reading too much into real world politics and forgetting that AV is a fairytale-ish world. In fairytales, peasants always become rulers and always do a great job regardless of their past.

And we're getting off-topic anyway.

@esme: AV is a fantasy world that has real life reasonings. For example, in a 'happy' world, there would be no slavery. Why should there be?

There would be no 'slave hunters' who actively look for people and throw them into slavery either.

As for fairy tales, they were originally dark and (depending on the culture) not always happy ending stories. Chinese fairy tales are notorious for sad endings.

Simply saying something is a 'fairy tale' doesn't automatically mean it has to be a happy ending.

Fortunately, even though the game doesn't explore the complex intricacies it created and doesn't tie up all lose ends, it gives a LOT of ideas to work with in fanfiction.

For example, I would love to see how slavery was resolved as it's never addressed past the first half of the game and how Rhen dealt with it personally as a former slave. Or any 'endgame' sequences.

I don't remember saying "fairy tale" automatically translated as "happy world with no slavery." I'm simply saying that Rhen needing XYZ qualifications to be a good queen wouldn't be an issue in the Aveyond world because A. the canon overtly states that she was an excellent queen (and if you use excuses like "oh, history wrote it differently," you're creating your own story, not following the canon), B. Rhen certainly had enough life experiences to bring to her ruling, and C. In farytales (the traditional type, which AV does borrow elements from), a peasant can become a great ruler and bring the kingdom to prosperity constantly.

A. Funny thing about canon is that there's a perfectly good hermit ending also which could mean that Rhen DOESN'T has the qualifications needed. And there's a DannyxRhen ending (I think there is. been a while) again meaning that it might not be Rhen's wish to be queen. So there's definite doubts involved.
(anyone want to give spoilers on the larsxrhen ending? I don't remember that one.)

B. Which are? I'm curious about what her qualifications are as the game immediately ends with essentially a 'happily ever after' ending so we don't actually see any of her relevant experiences put into practice.

C. True, but many fairy tales are also fairly simple, not so complex, and many end sadly. They usually end with wrapping up any loose ends also. AV though, leaves many threads tangled. It follows a typical 'hero's journey' though. (Off topic: I wouldn't want to meet Snow White as she sounds absolutely vicious, not at all like the cutesy girl Disney makes her out to be. O_o;;.)

ahhem.... -_- Dameon is ... Hideous . *runs* (Don't kill me!)
Lars is Cute!
Rhen and Lars.

And if RHen was a hermit... well that just seams odd, I mean like she just saved the world! And now she is going to go live in a cabin and knitt.

Dameon, king, thats a scary thought.

@aveyond: the women's mind is a true mystery. No human can fully understand it without going crazy.
(not that men's mind can't be complicated.)

Why would dameon being a king be scary? Oo?

True that you have the hermit ending and the Clearwater ending (and the one where Rhen joins the darkside as well), but those endings are quick and simple, while the queen ending is drawn out with an elaborate wedding cutscene, which pretty strongly implies that that ending is supposed to be the canon one (as is proven in AV2, when the Thais prince Uthar talks about his great-great grandmother Rhen Pendragon, which means that Rhen took the throne in the canon). The player being able to choose something doesn't necessarily make it canon (i.e., you can marry Devin and Talia in AP, but in AV we learn that Devin married Alicia).

Uh, Rhen's saved the world from a demon, that has to count for something. Haven't you ever read a story where the hero goes adventuring for a while and then returns to take his/her rightful place on the throne? It's not just in simple little fairytales either - there's Lord of the Rings, for example, where Aragorn has lived as a rogue for a long time but then after his adventure he returns to Gondor to rule and the kingdom prospers after that.

@esme: If they are in game, they are canon. So yes, they ARE canon XD
No matter how short/long the ending actually was, its canon. For example, talia/devin's weddings is the same length as devin/alicia's wedding. and both are canon.

Not really. That just shows you're good at killing things. Ulysses was supposedly a great general...but utterly sucked at leading a country. Being good at one thing doesn't translate to being good at another thing.

Aragorn was raised by Elrond (meaning history lessons, manners, and such), actively helped kings/stewards (learning to rid of evil politicans mehehehe), and had Arwen as a wife (meaning more help on the political side). It might not have been formal training, but it was training nonetheless.

Rhen on the other hand mostly learned to fight and fought. And not much else.

Speaking of Arwen, I just remembered Rhen's was married to Dameon. (he's so forgettable) So it might not be Rhen leading, but Dameon since he had druid training and probably knows a lot more about politics than good ole Rhen.

So you're going to say that in the real Aveyond world Devin both married Talia and married Alicia? Or that Rhen became a hermit, went home to Clearwater, joined with Ahriman, AND became queen? Or that Edaward married Mel, Stella, Lydia, AND Belf?

The player may be able to make different choices in the AV games, but as far as the story itself goes, there is still a single timeline in which certain things happened and certain things didn't, regardless of player's choices. It's fine if you prefer the hermit ending, but like it or not, it ain't canon.

@esme: Canon If its in game than yes its canon. Have you seen marvel/dc/any comic book series before?

Canon simply means its literally in the game. if there are different canon endings, than that means there's alternate universes where different scenarios are explored. hence why when some people are discussing a particular series, they sometimes say "book/comic/movie/series 1/series2/etc. universe" so everyone's on the same page of which canon they are discussing.

The games are only exploring one of these 'alternate universe' but the other endings are equally valid since they are in game.

I'll use spiderman as an example:
We have the original canon where peter has a sickly aunt.
Than we have another later canon where the aunt isn't sick at all but a healthy old woman.
Both are considered canons, but of different alt universes/series.

And look at Batman. Now THAT dude has tons of official retellings. O_o;;;

I use to want the queen ending, but.... Everything seams wrong with it. Like one you have to marry Dameon, and he is 1) ugly 2) not powerful
3) ok... I could go on... but you know I really don't feel up to dieing today.
Then there is the little part of Rhen not wanting to be queen.

I wish I could do the Ava/gavin thingi, but I just cant make Nick leave to get gavin. (I think Nickolas is wayyy better.)

Then I just love the little things like
"Emma throw a rock."
Emma throws rock at Rye! Its just so cute!

@aveyond: so essentially you dislike the queen ending because dameon 'sucks'?
BTW, how do you know that rhen doesn't want to be queen?