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> Minaret Ban in Switzerland
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #61 | ||||||||||
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Irrelevant. "Highly doubtful" refers to what you believe. You disagreed with me on the basis that you did not accept my reason. You did not accept my reason because it wasn't scientific proof. Quote:
Proofs, by their nature, don't suggest. They dictate. If the conclusion is wishy-washy, it's not a proof. Quote:
Well, I stated that I had a reason, and you said that it wasn't scientific proof. This indicates that unless my reason is scientific proof, you won't accept it. Quote:
As Descartes said, doubting is the simplest action a human can perform 
Posted on: 2010/2/14 1:46
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #62 | ||||||||||
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Proofs, by their nature, don't suggest. They dictate. If the conclusion is wishy-washy, it's not a proof. No, you're completely wrong. Proofs don't always dictate. Proofs can set in stones somethings, but for most part they don't. If proofs always dictate everything in science would be laws, but this is not the case. There are more theories than laws.
Posted on: 2010/2/14 12:37
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #63 | ||||||||||
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Okay, I know I'm coming late to this discussion, but I must say that this minaret ban and others similar to it (i.e. face veil ban in France) make perfect sense. I know it sounds silly, but these countries need to protect their culture. Have you ever been to France? While they're culture is still intact, that doesn't mean that it always will be. Muslims are the largest foreign group in France and the group is steadily growing. How long before France loses its culture? It's not so far-fetched as you think. These bans are not measures to try and encroach upon Muslim rights, they are to protect the cultures of these European countries against further encroachment of culture. These countries do not belong to the Muslims; these countries belong to their natives, and, strange as it may seem, they are beginning to lose their culture.
Posted on: 2010/2/14 17:54
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #64 | ||||||||||
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They're theories because they haven't been proven... that was what I meant to say before, science doesn't prove things, it proves them to be wrong. --- regarding Minaret bans, what iPink said actually reminded me of something. any building in several (if not more) european countries that is considered historic can't be modified in any way, to the point that they restore them by numbering the bricks, taking everything apart & meticulously putting the thing together with every piece exactly where it was. So, with an
Posted on: 2010/2/16 16:37
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #65 | ||||||||||
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that was what I meant to say before, science doesn't prove things, it proves them to be wrong. No. Like I said earlier. Science can prove that something is possible, however science can't always prove something is impossible.
Posted on: 2010/2/16 16:43
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #66 | ||||||||||
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though if we go from that source of yours, protecting culture isn't technically what the bans are for.
minaret = militant thingy. veil = something about feminist ideals? though i'm still in doubt about islam taking over. *points to US* they tried banning us chinese out with the 'chinese exclusion act' cuz we're apparently taking over the (And yes, I was joking about chinese taking over the world. though I bet if you compared the culture of now to the culture of 10/20 heck 50 years ago, you'd see things have changed. Culture isn't static and imo isn't defined. You can't prevent change from happening since it changes with each generation.
Posted on: 2010/2/16 16:47
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #67 | ||||||||||
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KTC: no, it's probably not. Though it was just a news article & those can be wrong too. . . Smart voters come up w/ their own reasons anyway. =P minarets (as someone pointed out before) are used to call people to prayer. From what I understand (from wikipedia, long time after I made that post) it's literally someone standing up there and shouting (or a loudspeaker). If you wanna say that's a militant thing to do, I can just tell you to go pull out a translator & listen for a while. So, the proponents of the ban were really blowing gas when they said that. Prally no other reason than using psychology and scare tactics. (and to reiterate, I was talking official reasons then. I'm talking other possible reasons/outcomes now. ) & for the morality over in europe, preservation of history & culture is pretty important... I mean, it makes sense when you consider the outline of the Berlin wall is still around (though only as a different colored line in the ground), and Hamburg has a moat in the middle of the city. ---- Quote:
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They're theories because they haven't been proven... Then you agree w/ this part? Let's not ignore the meaty part just so you can pick apart some assertion that can be removed without affecting my point. also, reread this statement if you really want to pick it apart: "Science doesn't prove things, it just proves them to be wrong" I didn't say this time it proves stuff to be possible or impossible. So don't shove words back in my mouth or try to change the topic to make me sound wrong.
Posted on: 2010/2/16 17:22
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #68 | ||||||||||
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Then you agree w/ this part? With what part? Quote: Science doesn't prove things, it just proves them to be wrong You're still wrong. Science CAN prove things. You're using the wrong choices of words. Science is not about what can be right and what can be wrong. Science is about what is possible and what is not possible.
Posted on: 2010/2/16 17:29
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #69 | ||||||||||
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@wolfie: grr at scare tactics. *glares at patriot act*
buildings/culture: buildings are preserved because that's way easier to do than preserving the people's mindset. I'm looking at you San Francisco. It has a bunch of historic buildings, a reputation for being gay friendly, and a Chinatown that is major tourist Anyone would be hard pressed to claim their culture hasn't changed at all. So how would you preserve something that, despite all your efforts, will change anyway? Buildings = easy choice.
Posted on: 2010/2/16 19:12
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #70 | ||||||||||
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@KTC: if only it was just scare tactics. I took a psych course a few semesters back that focused on some of the tactics marketers use to get you to buy whatever they're selling... that is some scary stuff there.
for an odd sounding (but apparently not unusual) example, there's a shop in ... I forgot the city but I think it's in arizona somewhere... that sells gemstones & jewelery. They raised the number of sales they make by doubling the prices. Buildings are an easy choice. so is exclusionism. . . at least until the UN start sending strongly worded letters
Posted on: 2010/2/17 12:48
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Deal with it; you're tasty! I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. My newly built "abandoned cottage". |
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #71 | ||||||||||
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@wolfie: yeah, i took a course about advertisement/word choice/propaganda earlier and it was scary. Oo;;;
wow, i thought doubling prices usually was bad for business. Unless you're like the only one that sells the stuff. UN: bah, they can't do anything except condemn this or condemn that. All talk. Not seeing how it was an upgrade from its predecessor.
Posted on: 2010/2/17 12:51
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #72 | ||||||||||
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Ktc: oh no, it goes way beyond just word choice.
This shop wasn't even able to get rid of their inventory but then they accidentally doubled prices (instead of halving) for turquoise or sth during tourist season one year & sales got booming. And it's jewellery. . . so not really stuff you have to get right away without shopping around. [edit]/UN: I think it has *slightly* more power doesn't it? or like, holds a military at least[/edit]
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:07
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Deal with it; you're tasty! I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. My newly built "abandoned cottage". |
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #73 | ||||||||||
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@wolfie:
wording: what cha mean? Oo? shop:...huh UN: slightly I think, but not enough to warrant its 'prestige'. I think its overrated.
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:12
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #74 | ||||||||||
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yeah, i took a course about advertisement/word choice/propaganda earlier and it was scary. Oo;;; Maybe. Though the predecessor was pretty prestigious in it's day & age too. And technically, the UN facilitates alliances between member countries, so if you piss all of them off enough then there could be enough trouble to navigate past the politics of attacking another country. (esp another member country)
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:23
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Deal with it; you're tasty! I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. My newly built "abandoned cottage". |
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #75 | ||||||||||
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@wolfie:
eh? we were specifically looking at how wording can trigger certain emotional responses in the reader/listener/watcher so they would react accordingly. Like in mccain's speeches (fear) or in women/men magazines ads (desire/need to belong/masculinity/etc.) UN: haven't done that a lot though imo. i mean, all you hear right now is condemning but nothing backing those condemnings.
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:31
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #76 | ||||||||||
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ah. in that case it was prally a similar topic. 'cept mine was especially focused on how to make people want stuff. (ie. higher cost = it must be more valuable = I'll buy this more valuable rock for my souvenir... even though in reality they were just overpriced)
haha. because that would violate UN rules. but if you piss people off badly enough. . . who knows Quote:
from en.wikpedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Charter
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:43
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Deal with it; you're tasty! I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. My newly built "abandoned cottage". |
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #77 | ||||||||||
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@wolfie:
wording thing: we studied that briefly too. trigger emotional response (need to be masculine)= buy this supposedly 'masculine' product to make you masculine. and so on. UN: in other words, its all talk but no bite. 
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:52
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #78 | ||||||||||
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/words: oh yeah, now I remember sth about that. if you ever need sth from a stranger, add "because" into the statement and you don't even need a good reason they'll be much more likely to give you what you want.
that's how much we went into wording. =P (annd my paranoia increases now that I've remembered that) /UN: that's what it was designed to be, no?
Posted on: 2010/2/17 13:56
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Deal with it; you're tasty! I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. My newly built "abandoned cottage". |
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #79 | ||||||||||
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@wolfie:
hehe yep: wording is scary. <.< >.> UN: and that's why I find it overrated (since most countries won't do anything unless forced t ie army invasion/embargo/attacked etc.) XD
Posted on: 2010/2/17 14:01
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| Re: Minaret Ban in Switzerland | #80 | ||||||||||
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/UN: yeeeah... but what's the alternative? establishing a ruling body for Europe that invades countries that don't go along with the masses?
Posted on: 2010/2/17 14:03
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Deal with it; you're tasty! I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. My newly built "abandoned cottage". |
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