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Re: Sexual Identity #61
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
@KTC Oh yeah? Well.. Um.. You're low on MP! So there.

Did you know it's 3am here? And the cleaners are coming tomorrow, so I have to get out of the house early. I should sleep..

I will pick this up in the morning? As long as I'm posting, do you two mind (if you haven't already) checking out my prologue for my story in the Hungry Boar Inn? I always love feedback!

Night. <3

Posted on: 2010/12/21 6:03
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Re: Sexual Identity #62
Offline   KTC
  The Brotherhood
gold   7518 Gold
Level : 59
EXP : 48
HP : 877 / 1462
MP : 2538 / 28764
@scimitras: I still got more mp than you (my 1193 vs your 9) 'so there' XD

Posted on: 2010/12/21 6:05
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Re: Sexual Identity #63
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
You know thats not fair! I would have more MP then you if my old account hadn't crashed with the rest of the site!!

And anyways,

Posted on: 2010/12/21 6:07


Re: Sexual Identity #64
Offline   Nick
  Witches and Warlocks
gold   742 Gold
Level : 25
EXP : 43
HP : 0 / 610
MP : 266 / 12014
Before people start arguing about queer topics, they need to know the lingo, which ranges from basic to not so basic. "Queer" is a blanket term for all things not straight. "Bisexual" is the attraction to male and female specifically and "pan sexual" is the attraction to people regardless of gender's. being "transsexual" has nothing to do with being gay or queer in any way, although many people who are transsexual are queer. There is also a difference between "gender" and "biological sex", which is a finer point I'm not going to take pages to explain, but I'm sure you're getting the picture already.

As a gay man, I see no problem with people identifying themselves in any way they choose, however there is a very fine line between self identification and social identification.

I can't exactly say where that line is, but then again who can? Some "down low" men identify themselves as straight but frequently have sexual encounters with men. I would say that's pretty queer, but at the same time, I wouldn't argue with them about identifying themselves however they want. Overall, I think we've become so obsessed with labeling things and people by shoving people into categories to define them. And at the same time I have no problem categorizing myself as a gay man, what a conundrum.

the bones I have to pick with people are below. :3

Quote:

iPink wrote:
You decide if you are gay or not.

I *think* I'm appreciating the thought here, but not so much the words you're saying. You can't per se "choose" to be gay or straight. You're just a magical, random 20% of the population that is something other than straight. You can choose to be gay and celibate, or straight and celebrate i guess. That doesn't really change your identity now does it?

Quote:

Kirroha wrote:
nobody is 100% gay or 100% straight.

False, but in the right spirit of things. there are some people that are completely straight and some people that are completely gay. they're just not as common. It's a sliding scale, with the majority falling to the middle.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 6:30
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Re: Sexual Identity #65
Offline   Kirroha
  Enchanters
gold   2966 Gold
Level : 43
EXP : 64
HP : 213 / 1066
MP : 1039 / 20913
@Scimitras: Are you saying that we should be allowed to stamp a 'gay' label on people who don't wish to, just because they have a certain amount of attraction to men? I don't think so. Of course you need to accept being gay before someone can apply that label on you.

Just like a person doesn't 'come out of the closet' until they have accepted their own sexual orientation first. A person can only be 'gay' if they consider themselves to be.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 6:47


Re: Sexual Identity #66
Offline   shadowshed
  The Brotherhood
gold   1313 Gold
Level : 31
EXP : 13
HP : 150 / 753
MP : 431 / 9963
@Nick: thanks for pointing out what they do mean!

Gay/lesbian/queer: it's something that scimitras has said before. Being attracted by the same gender instead of opposite one. I feel that Scimitras was aware that we're distorting that meaning by saying that being gay/lesbian is something that declareable by the one that we're talking about.

Grouping belongs:
Take example: a male is attracted(as gays happen) to other males than females around him. Someone see it as a gay thing. So, would he be a gay? When they asked if it's true or not, he denied it and said that he only happen to being close with.

What's the response?
- "he's still gay afterall": that comes from his behavior. It's normal to think like that, i think. Who's to blame? The ppl who didn't believe him? No. It even might be his fault. he must be aware that he may be called gay. With/without denying it, since he done it, lol.
- "then he's not since he says no": (is this what Scimitras assumed as distorted definition?)
umm... It sounds like no one actually care about the problem then. Like:
Q: are you a bad guy?
A: no, of course. I was just surprised her a bit so she cried
^nothing special then. If everyone really can overlook things like this, then there'd no police to arrest actual bad guys.
Also, aren't this group of homosexual and heterosexual suppose to make someone belong to which they're similar to? It's same as male and female group.

So overall, i don't think that a 'status' as a gay is decided of the main villian. Are you going to ignore what ppl saying of yourself!?

Posted on: 2010/12/21 8:04


Re: Sexual Identity #67
Offline   honyb50
  Amaranthian
gold   13 Gold
Level : 2
EXP : 38
HP : 0 / 34
MP : 4 / 513
You are what you think you are. Labels only work if you accept the commonly believed definition of it. As homo sapiens we are hard wired to classify ourselves. As thinking beings we are also apt to try and create new titles for ourselves so as to set ourselves up to be different from the rest. Kind of an oxymoron. We want to belong, yet at the same time we want to be better than the rest. Go figure.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 13:36


Re: Sexual Identity #68
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
@Kirroha When did I EVER say that or anything like that? I'm getting really tired of sharing my opinion and you turning it into some homophobic message that I am saying. It makes me want to end the discussion and not respond anymore.

I never said anything about stamping labels, I said that a universal definition would make the idea of "gay" easier to comprehend and be proud of.

I never said that you can decide if someone is gay for them, I said there is often a time when family members and friends suspect someone is gay before they come out of the closet (but they DO come out the closet eventually). SUSPECT not DECIDE.

I never said anything about ostracizing anyone, I said that things would be less confusing if categories were more clearly defined.

I am deeply sorry that in your country is very homophobic (as you said) and no one is allowed to show any sort of homosexual relation, even in private, or even speak out against this rule without being arrested, but please STOP projecting that on to me.

I think I'm done with this thread. You guys can continue it if you want. I don't appreciate getting my words twisted.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 15:30
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Re: Sexual Identity #69
Offline   Kirroha
  Enchanters
gold   2966 Gold
Level : 43
EXP : 64
HP : 213 / 1066
MP : 1039 / 20913
I never said that you were homophobic. As I've said, the definition I believe in is that being 'gay' requires you to have an attraction to the same gender as well as to accept it. You said there was no need to accept it in order to be considered gay. I begged to differ on that point. That has nothing to do with you being homophobic or not. I'm sorry you didn't comprehend my words properly.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 20:07


Re: Sexual Identity #70
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
As you will see in my above post, you keep twisting my words in a way that's both insulting and rude.

If you didn't notice, check my above post again for everything you pointed out I said, and everything I actually said.

"I'm sorry you didn't comprehend my words properly." <-- You can't apologize for the way you phrased it, only the way I understood it? I guess if it's my fault, there's nothing left to be said. I'm not responding to this anymore. This is really insulting and not worth my time to explain.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 20:12
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Re: Sexual Identity #71
Offline   Kirroha
  Enchanters
gold   2966 Gold
Level : 43
EXP : 64
HP : 213 / 1066
MP : 1039 / 20913
I apologize for my first post with the bolded letters, as that was the only time where I considered you homophobic, but that matter was cleared up long ago after you have said that you were gay yourself. After that, I never twisted your arguments in any way. I merely presented my own opinions. Of course, there might be some point where I misunderstood your words. You are welcome to quote those inconsistencies and show me. Otherwise, I won't even know what you are talking about.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 20:21


Re: Sexual Identity #72
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
you sounded like you were saying "Gay people are born gay, even if you try to deny it they're still gay, so they should just have fun being ostracized and stuff." ^^;

Never used the word ostracized. At all. Or any word synonymous to it.
~~
I still don't see the point of making a category. Just because a person is gay does not make him inferior to anyone else, or vice versa.

I never said anything about gays being inferior. I mentioned categories. Somehow, you got inferior from that.
~~
Are you saying that we should be allowed to stamp a 'gay' label on people who don't wish to, just because they have a certain amount of attraction to men?

Ah, no. You said that being gay requires acceptance. I said, "Who says being gay requires acceptance?".
I never said, "Who says you have to identify as gay in order to be one?".
The first means that you don't have to realize you "just became gay", you can realize you've been gay for quite a long time.

The second one means that you can call someone gay and decide they are gay even if they have decided they aren't. I NEVER said the second one. I said the first.
~~
After that, I never twisted your arguments in any way. I merely presented my own opinions. Of course, there might be some point where I misunderstood your words.

I can accept that you misunderstood the words that I said. Thats reasonable and everyone does it. However, the way you phrase your response can be seen as very insulting, especially when it has happened several times.
~~
There are your quotes, I would never be rude enough to accuse you of something and not tell you why; that is what I came back to do.

Argue with it if you wish, otherwise I don't really feel like talking to you anymore. So much for light-hearted.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 20:32
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Re: Sexual Identity #73
Offline   Kirroha
  Enchanters
gold   2966 Gold
Level : 43
EXP : 64
HP : 213 / 1066
MP : 1039 / 20913
My apologies for not phrasing my words properly. I will really like to continue the discussion in a light-hearted manner, and I am sorry for any misunderstandings that might have occurred as a result. After all, this is across the internet, and we can only use words to express ourselves and are unable to make use of our tone of voice to do so, and so it is very easy for misunderstandings to happen. Again, I am very sorry for anything that I've said that is potentially insulting, but if you would rather not have my presence here, I can leave without any qualms.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 20:48


Re: Sexual Identity #74
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5458 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 9
HP : 520 / 1302
MP : 1810 / 24620
@Scimitras

I think you should take a breather, then come back to this thread.

I've watched over this thread and Kirroha never was insulting or rude in any of her posts. Nor is she the person who tries to insult people. If someone thinks she did, it was just a misunderstanding.

Like Kirroha said, this is the internet, so you don't get the tone of how it's being said like you would in person. So it's best to try to clear up the misunderstanding, and not accuse others of trying to be rude or twist words.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 20:56
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Re: Sexual Identity #75
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
I don't want anyone to go anywhere, I implore all interested participants to continue this discussion, including you Kirroha. It would be terribly rude of me to ask you or anyone else to leave a thread. If I'm unhappy with a situation, I'll just remove myself from it. Have no fear.

@Mopiece Maybe. I don't really want to think about it anymore. Can you remove the posts between me and Kirroha from this thread?

Posted on: 2010/12/21 21:42
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Re: Sexual Identity #76
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5458 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 9
HP : 520 / 1302
MP : 1810 / 24620
@Scimitras

I can delete posts, but this really doesn't warrant deletion.

Posted on: 2010/12/21 21:45
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Re: Sexual Identity #77
Offline   s_tyong
  Dragon Lords
gold   844 Gold
Level : 27
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 668
MP : 326 / 12749
Anyhow, to get back onto topic:
Personally, I believe that attraction to the opposite or same sex should not be looked down upon, for while many may contradict that you can unquestionably choose to be homosexual, bisexual, heterosexual, or even a-sexual, the hormones in a persons' body also contribute to their level of attraction to a certain sex.

In the upbringing of mankind, where has it been biologically or morally correct to bind a person's feelings and personal freedoms, in the event where no physical harm has been done to any other members of society? It hasn't. And where in the society of democratic liberties does a person deserve to be branded an infidel due to his or her wants of a more equal union?

Whatever the reason may be (upbringing, society influences), you have no excuse for either avoiding the fact that you are empowering your kind, or looking down upon others, for that is discrimination.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
-Abraham Lincoln


PS. Even magic may cause our personal attractions (ie. Devin's marriage)

Posted on: 2010/12/21 22:08
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Re: Sexual Identity #78
Offline   shadowshed
  The Brotherhood
gold   1313 Gold
Level : 31
EXP : 13
HP : 150 / 753
MP : 431 / 9963
Agree or not, those gay/lesbian/straight are kind of label which have condition for each of the contents. Anything that related must be included to the related label. Ex: Gay is a label for some guys who attracted to other guys, and so on. It's true if someone will be a dilemma for 'joining' one label, which is depends on themselves, and seen by others. But, we(anyone whoever say this) come with expecting to not stamp the label to someone until they admitted and realized themselves as they do. Are we talking about respectfulling the 'containts'?

The very problem to me already listed in my previous post, that questioning the matter of nothing-to-do-label as queer/straight.

Posted on: 2010/12/22 1:41


Re: Sexual Identity #79
Offline   SkylerWXG
  Druids
gold   1312 Gold
Level : 31
EXP : 26
HP : 151 / 756
MP : 435 / 10918
Okay,this is getting somewhat far,and is insulting me,seriously deep.I attempted to keep away from it.As a gay guy,let me say that I did not decide to be gay,because I found out I am seriously gay when I found myself drooling when was looking at a handsome guy.It is quite hard to accept,and is even harder to make the others,especially friends accept you the way how you are.It is an extremely insulting thing to put labels,or even have the intention,and you do not choose,you are born that way,with your own preference.Please do not jump the horse with this,because it insulted me deeply some of the posts here,and I am not giving names.

Posted on: 2010/12/23 16:10


Re: Sexual Identity #80
Offline   Scimitras
  Amaranthian
gold   144 Gold
Level : 10
EXP : 75
HP : 0 / 243
MP : 45 / 2749
Kenneth, she never said you're "born that way".

I completely disagree with you. When I learned that I was gay, the first thing that bothered me is that there wasn't a universal definition of gay. If no one quite knows what gay IS, no one can quite take pride in it.
Also, why are you insulted? D:

Posted on: 2010/12/23 16:19
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