The worst places I have heard of is Memphis and Nashville (crowding, maze, high crime rate, etc.).

It's so sad to hear about this. But this isn't just a probem in Romania, to some degree it happens everywhere.

Quote:
Really? I would say that America is realatively safe in general; I have no fear of being openly gay at work or in public/personal life even though I don't live in a largely metropolitan area. I do live in the North-West though, which is pretty liberal. I can see how this might be different in the Midwest/South.

Quote:You mean we agree for once?!

Quote:Do we need to have a talk? I strongly disagree (God, I think that's a first.) Unless you have fear of bodily injury, you should be who you are regardless of how other people react. Telling people to "pass" as straight is a step in the wrong direction, and I think you know it. If you ever want things to progress to the point where being gay is just another preference, then you need to start acting like it NOW. Regardless of whether bigots and idiots are ready for it. it's also insulting to GLBT people who have paved the way to get to the point where we are now, people who actually had an extreme risk of bodily injury or even death for openly being who they were.

"you have fear of bodily injury"

^ This right here is all the reason needed.

In highly bigoted areas where it's almost guaranteed you're going to end up beat up, maimed, raped, or even killed, I would strongly recommend keeping a low profile.

I prefer to be alive and whole than end up in any of the above conditions. Even more so if a loved one is with me as if something happened to her/him, it'd be on my head.

I'd only consider not keeping a low profile if you have a community/group to support and back you up.

But alone with no backup and only pain/humiliation to look forward to? Heck. No.

Well, in Pakistan, telling you're gay would be amounting to getting kicked out of your parent's house, losing any inheritance you were getting and also most likely killed by some religious nut.
Even if the last didn't happen, would someone prefer to live being humiliated by everyone?

Some people do. Others, not so much.

Many have no desire to be a martyr for a cause.

@KTC That's because most people don't know to sort their priorities out. The marriage between two gay people doesn't count just as a symbol, yet it also provides legal right of one in case the other one dies on his property, otherwise, everything the partner which died owned would go directly to his or her family. Also, in the married state, people can also take larger loans that individually, and also both contribute for their belongings and investments, so legally it's not one or other's but it actually belongs to both. As simple as that. Many fail to realize what benefits legal marriages bring to them.

@Kenneth: No, many people do not want to be humiliated and/or injured/raped/killed.

Being alive and whole is a very practical reason that often trumps lofty ideals.

@KTC Do you think that as a group they don't support that idea? Marriage has a lot of perks with it, that's why LGBT community is fighting for the right, otherwise who would care? Religious marriage has no importance whatsoever. Individuals of course are afraid, being alone in a homophobic background, but that's why groups exist, and support, am I wrong?
EDIT: And why would be lofty? It's actually pretty normal to want to be allowed the same as everyone else, instead of being put aside like an abnormality. It's like that case when someone would yell at somebody else because they eat a steak while they're on a diet. They don't have the right to oppose the same right for people exactly as them. That renders them simply as evil.

Lofty because the ideal isn't going to feed or protect you.

In places like what theone pointed out, that ideal is going to get you humiliated and/or injured/killed.

And most people would rather not be. Call it human nature or 'cowardliness', but most people would rather be safe/alive/whole than dead/homeless/bullied/etc.

It's all well and good for people from the safety of their homes or behind the 'anonymity' of the internet to preach about fighting xx enemy, but when it's your life on the line ideals often take a backseat to more practical things like staying safe.

I do agree that the best is to stay alive, however there is also a thing called maximum limit of how much a person can endure being in that state. And that's why people come out. It will become uncomfortable at one point to still be in the closet.

And humans, if nothing else, have proven to be able to endure hardship for long periods of time and even their whole life, especially more so if they have a lot on the line.

Staying in the closet isn't anything new considering LGBTQ people have been around as long as the straight ones. It's the getting them recognized as normal human beings that is still a new concept which people fight over obviously.

So while I agree there's a maximum threshold for people, most of us will never reach that point in our lives because we've all been conditioned and taught to endure. Even more so when the cons (high likelihood of being raped, killed, harassed, etc.) can often far outweigh the pros (being out).

Which brings me back to my original point that, if you're residing in a place that is known for bigotry/violence against LGBT/etc., being alive and whole by maintaining a low profile is generally preferable to being beaten due to being out.

Your point is of remaining in closet. Yet, referring to the case in my city, nobody apart from them knew that each other was gay, yet, the policeman assaulted them in their own house. How can you explain such a thing? Does being closeted still protect you?

If they assaulted them without knowing they were gay, how is it a hate crime?

Because it was at night, when they were together in bed, and at the police section they got mocked and beaten.

@kenneth: How are they closeted if they are members of the LGBT community? That's a pretty blatant statement that they are out or at least are allies of the LGBT community. Which is like painting a target sign on your back to homophobic people.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but my point is: people will generally look out for the skins first, ideals second. Being out can be a death sentence in certain areas. If you have some type of support group like an LGBT community to help/support you, than one might think about being out since you have allies.

Everybody who's gay is a member of the LGBT community, for God's sake. I should mention that the president of the LGBT Support Organization pretty much took the case to the court.

gay people r human too.they have rights and should be treated just like other people......

@Soumya If only more people would think like that....

@kenneth: All gay people aren't part of the community. Closeted people do not want part of it, 'converted ie I was once gay but due to xxx camp am now straight' aren't part of it, haters who are secretly gay want to destroy the LGBT community, etc.

Also, how would that community help you out if they aren't there in your location? Not every place has a strong LGBT community where there are allies to help you. Some are very conservative/fearful/hateful that being out will be very bad for you.

I feel bad about using theone again to make a point, but he said that in Pakistan being out will pretty much put you on the streets and paint a large target sign to humiliate, harass, and kill.

If you have a community present in your area, than good for you. But not everyone is as privileged as you and therefore shouldn't be encouraged to do something that might get them killed.

Sides in the end, we're looking at this from opposite sides of the spectrum:
While I may be loud about rights online, you can bet that I would grovel/hide/etc. if it meant keeping my family and myself safe.

You're more inclined to be "out and proud, to devil with the consequences" even if those consequences can be very bad for you.

Agreeing with pretty much everything you said, KTC, I must say one last thing, that I'd rather face the reality than hiding. For me, that's not an option...


Also, I want to ask a moderator lock this topic, as well, in the process to delete this last post with the request. Thank you. I would like the topic to remain open only if others still want to take the talk further, otherwise I'd like it locked.


Merged posts.
~Mopiece