@d_a: I agree with you that it's not "deep" and that these things create the illusion of more depth than there is, but that's what any story is. The fact that we don't learn the answers to everything, even if there aren't really any answers, is a good thing. I think that, in general, AV3 struggled with that a bit more. There were still some really nice touches (Ashara's Tomb and the random, mostly unexplained giant crab, for instance), but it didn't have that same lived-in feel. Which is irrelevant to the ending, but I think that AV2's ending is the best for kind of the same reason, in that it feels like real life, a little bit. AV2 had a ton of problems (mostly with boring characters), but I think it's the only Aveyond game, Ahriman's Prophecy included, that really nails the ending.

Oh, and when you bring up Snape and Quirrell, are you saying that's a good example or a bad example? Because cases can very well be made for both sides. (I think it's well done, because it all makes sense in retrospect, but if you think of the book as a mystery rather than whatever ill-defined genre the series is then it kind of drops the ball on not giving quite enough clues to figure it out beforehand.)

I like to have everything tied up, but if the sequel clears that up, I'm fine with that as well. Just so long as I eventually learn the information.

I like happy endings, and sad endings make me sad, but I'd be okay with one. Glimmers of hope would be fine, but not needed. I should say that I adore bittersweet endings, however. I would much rather have one of those then an entirely sad ending.

"If a game ends in a way you don't expect, or is not your preferred ending type, would you regret playing at all?" This one is easy to answer, considering I really did not like GoN's ending whatsoever. As long as the rest of the game is good, I will not regret playing it if I hated the ending, though I will be rather disappointed. After a while I'll just pretend the ending didn't happen, and will go write a fanfic or rant with a friend to fix things in my head. Unless, of course, the ending I didn't like is constantly referenced/will be elaborated upon later. In which case, goshdarnit, it better be fixed! XD

As long as the ending's well-done, even if I don't like it, I'll probably be able to deal after a fair deal of moping. XD

I can't think of something that would make me wish I didn't play a game, other then totally unfitting or bad ending or bad game all around. So, nope, nothing there.

I thought of something else. Every time I play AV1, I save right before the final battle with Ahriman and then I choose to join Ahriman before loading the save and battling him. I don't know why, but I like seeing the evil ending. Not because I want it to be canon or anything, but because I think it's kind of cool (for lack of a better word) to have that option.

In other words, in games with multiple endings, I think it's cool to have an "evil ending" available.

@iPink: Quote:
I totally lost you there. What lived in feel? That random giant crab is something that I consider "it happens just because" and needs no explanation. So is Ashera's Tomb. What's your point in bringing them up? Questioning them would be like questioning the existence of that Fairy Tale village, or the wind tower, or the walking spoons in AV2, or the Militant Squirells. You generally don't question them because they're irrelevant.

The faux-depth IS what makes Aveyond fun. Playing speculations is always fun. It's only when you get down and dirty with the technicalities, it's bad. AV2 is the worst when it comes down to it. Other than Ean and Iya, the party members are only in it for the lulz. Ava doesn't contribute anything other than the ship. Nick is only in it to get a "life lesson". With the majority of the characters having no real investment in the main quest, why am I supposed to care?

Also, just what exactly makes the AV2 ending any different or more realistic than the others? AP has a sequel hook, i.e Ahriman being on the loose. AV1 ends properly. The team split up, goes to wherever, and Rhen goes to whichever option you chose. Same with AV2. Party split, goes to wherever, and Ean goes to whatever you chose for him. AV3 is also the same, except that with the option of Eddie marrying Mel or Stella can change their fates. Galahad, Te'ijal, and Ulf aren't affected.

AV3 was great, until the forced continuation. We all know - or at least quite a lot of us knows - that AV3 originally ends with GON. Amanda then decided to extend it with TLO and TDP afterwards. The extra chapters wasn't fused to the existing story properly, causing the second half of the story to feel like it's pastede on yey. And yes, a lot of us would agree that TDP has a messy plot and doesn't end well, but you can't exactly compare it to the other AVs that are made in one go.

HP example: good twist. Once Quirell is revealed, if you backtrack and look at any instances where something bad happens because of him, it does make sense. Harry's jinxed broom: Hermione crashes into Quirell in her rush to cast a spell on Snape, breaking his eye-contact and stopping the spell. Troll in the dungeon: What is Quirell doing there in the first place that he encountered the troll? So on and so forth. The whole Heptitus-is-controlling-Ishtar just came out of nowhere.

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It is actually lampshaded once by the Oracle, who said that Ishtar is as much as a prisoner as Iya is- implying Mind Rape. Also if you look back, Heptitus is the only nymph who didn't actually give her 'blessing' (you have to steal it from her). However, the connection is really weak, that despite the given implications, I can't say the plot twist is well written.

Anyway, although I think the story line of AV2 is quite boring/linear, the plot is most well presented. What usually bugs me about Aveyond series is that, most of the time, there's a Big Bad planning to destroy or take over the world- but nobody except the main characters even cares. And even then, most of your party members only joins you for petty reasons like "wanting an adventure" or things like that. And the endings... well, I don't particularly enjoy the Happily Ever After endings AV series is so fond of. I mean, you seriously think after an epic battle with the big bad, you can just go home and act like nothing happens? What about the destruction that was caused? No reformations of the broken cities and scattered people caused by the conflicts?

At least all of these are avoided in AV 2. We see Uthar and Ella gathering an army to fight against Ishtar- and the battle did happen. After the battle, they actually stayed to help rebuild/stabilize the city, instead of simply heading home and leave Shaenlir without a ruler. Also, if you interact with the citizens, you'd find out from their dialogue that some of them were affected by the battle.

@d_a: You misunderstood me. I like the crab and Ashara's Tomb, and similar things to that, but AV3 didn't have a lot of that until TLO, and even then it felt like it didn't "fit" into the game (which is obviously because it didn't fit, and, as you said, was pasted on).

The end of AV3 tied everything up too nicely. The epilogue scrawl makes sure of that. There's no mystery about what happened to the characters, and there's no feeling of goodbye because you just assume they'll see each other again next Christmas or whatever. AV2, on the other hand, ends with a lot of ambiguity, which is cool (for me). These goodbyes feel real. Also, the choices were missing from AV3. You choose who he marries, but not the fate of Mel herself, the MAIN CHARACTER. So yeah, that bugs me too.

For what it's worth, TLO is my favorite Aveyond game, and I really like LoT and GoN as well. I'm only critical of AV3 as a whole (and TDP, although I've only played it once, so I need to see if I like it better the second time around).

I agree - I love TLO too. It just has that general feeling that made it really stand out. And no, it's not just because of Nox. XD

Nox wasn't in TLO. You mean TDP?

No, Nox was in TLO. She kept coming around, talking to Mel and Gyendal, and she showed up at the Halloween party.

@iPink: I never said you disliked them. It's the part about you thought they don't have the lived-in feel that gives me a headscratch moment. Like, so the tomb and the crab is there. Point being?

Anyways, yeah, I get that you mean they don't fit in well because it didn't exist in the previous chapters, but I ignored it because they're in a different island so different architecture/place/monsters is to be expected. They're there just because.

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How is there ambiguity in AV2? you're making mysteries out of nothing here! Party split, everyone went to wherever, end of story.

@Rogue: To be fair, the deal with Aveyond 1 and 3 was the hero team taking "preventive measures". Nothing major had been affected other than the destroyed-Thais in AV1, so it makes sense that nobody really cares. It's because nobody knows what's going on. So was the majority of AV3. Gyendal wasn't exactly public with his intentions, so... It's the TDP part that really makes no sense. Mel captured the kings and queens and once you're done, there's no repercussions. I don't know how they could have NOT seen Mel and recognized her.

@Elemental

But we didn't really know that was Nox.

However, she was still in the game, and it was labeled Nox for much of it. We knew it was Nox, we just didn't know who/what Nox was.

@Elemental: And Nox was a lot cooler in TLO than TDP. Mostly because TLO felt like it was leading up to something really big, and then TDP was really anticlimactic in regards to Nox/the twins.

@d_a: What I'm trying (and apparently failing XD) to say is that Ashara's Tomb and the crab are just little things that make it feel like the world is a real place. Eldrion feels like it would be there whether we visited it or not, as do the worlds in AP, AV1, and AV2. In LoT, GoN, and TDP, the world feels explicitly crafted for the characters. Which feels kind of false. I really don't know how better to explain it.

And I think I've just figured out exactly what makes the ending of AV2 works for me and AV3's really doesn't: in AV2, the story ends, the people go back to their lives, and there's that bittersweet goodbye, because the world seems to go on past that moment and you don't know what happens, and don't need to (ambiguity, etc.). In AV3, it feels truly like an ending. It doesn't feel like the characters walk off the screen to continue their lives. It feels like they cease to exist after the ending. I can imagine all of them going off to live their lives, but I can't believe it. I'm probably alone in this, but that's how I feel. And I think the artificiality of the world for much of AV3 is part of it. I can't believe that it's a real place, so how can I believe that the characters can continue to exist in it?

@iPink: It's not that I don't understand what you're saying. I don't understand your entire perspective, period. I don't feel like AV3's places are conthrived. I don't feel like the ending makes the characters seem to cease to exist. AV3's places seem as legit as any other places to ever exist in other AVs and its ending is as good/bad as the others. I don't know you can get this kind of outlook at it, and frankly it's none of my business. My view of Aveyond is tainted by my crackshipping lens, so there's a lot of things that I let slide just because I don't care.

For me, it is very important that all the questions are answered in the end of the series, so if I know there will be a sequal, im fine with some open plots.

I think the ending may be a bit dark or sad, but it is very important that I don´t feel like i am a bad player, or that I feel powerless. I have to know it was meant to end this way, and it doesn´t dissapoint me. But if the endboss just smacks me down in the end and calls me weak, that´s just annoying

I'm glad Aveyond since changed "Dead" status to "incapacitated", though. Otherwise if someone's dead in the cutscenes, people are going to flail about why cassia leaves don't work anymore (e.g Dead Stella if you didn't choose her in AV3).

yeah that is a good decision.remember in AP the characters could still fight(while they were dead) but just cant walk.that seemed kinda unreal.AND they replenished their health after you sleep(for a few times),that just changed the meaning of the word "dead" completely. i think incapacitated is THE word.

Nothing wrong with the 'dead' status. It's normal in every RPG. 'Incapacitated' just sounds more weird.

Only it would make things seem weird if the writer decide to have a character killed of for real. You see, if characters have been dying and getting brought back to life with Cassia Leaves, it just don't make sense why it wouldn't work for that particular event, and that could count as an idiot plot/moment.

Anyway, Aveyond never seem to really kill off the protagonists. Sure, you can have Jack eaten in AP, and he'd die for real- but it's optional and most players would choose another alternative where no one dies; or you can not choose Stella in AV3 and let her die, but that's not even permanent since she's brought back to life in the next chapter

Yeah but sometimes RPGs doesn't have to make sense. Like barging in through someone's house, talking to everyone etc etc. Gamers don't really think much of it anyways.

Like in most endings, some would probably think "if the 'bad guy' is 'killed', then wouldn't it make sense for him/her to use 'phoenix down' again?" But who in their right mind would want to revive them anyways? So that might 'balance' out the death/resurrecting contradiction and the idiotic moment.