Twilight skeptic here. I used to be a fan, used to be a hater. Now, I basically don't care, though I'm still open to discussion.

Has anyone noticed that Meyer's heroes sort of have the same attitude as Rowling's villain? The 'lose your soul for immortality' bit? I mean, granted, a few (Edward, Rosalie) do care about staying human, souls, etc., but the vast majority do not.

Haha, anyway just thought I'd point that out. I think Jake imprinting on Renesmee (who shouldn't exist) is really creepy. Imagine him making out with Nessie and saying, "I used to want to get it on with your mom, and I changed your diapers." Ew! I was sort of hoping that he would imprint on Tanya or Leah.

The series is OK, I guess. To me, it has just a bit to much cheese for much worth. Rosalie, Leah, Alice, Heidi, Victoria and Jane are my favorites. When the villains are so 'not bad', and the heroes aren't fighting to 'save anyone' except a clumsy whiny 17 year old, it's hard to root for them.

Just my opinion!

@sera: wow, you're were on all parts of the spectrum of twilight lol. what made ya initially like, hate, and pushed you to become a 'meh' on twilight?

But there's a major difference between the sparkly vamps and voldemort:

voldemort wants to conquer the world, get rid of muggles/mudbloods/, and be a general bad guy. He also voluntarily lost his soul to get a form of immortality. (and he's not shiny which is totally a bummer. I mean he can just distract harry with some well placed sparkly-ness.
Voldemort: "I shine!"
*sun comes out*
Voldemort: "sparkly powa! I am ze monsta!"
Harry: ARGH! my eyes! They burn!

...omg, i can't believe I just did that.)

The shinies by their biological nature are not human anymore so are under no obligation to actually care about their food source. Here's the question backwards, do humans care about the animals their eating as food? Majority will say no. Why should vampires than?

renessssssme's (Asmodeussssss see the resemblance? [redwall ftw] XD) birth is apparently freaky to a lot of twifans. was it for you?

as for clumsy whiny 17 (wait, she's 17?), you forgot extremely low self esteemed XD Who ARE the villians besides victoria? Volturi seem like wusses. Interesting idea, not used well though.

My whole problem with Nessie being born isn't about the halfbreed or imprinting - its just too much. I think in the end Meyers gave Bella too much of what she wanted. It was really easy to lose interest after she gets married and prego.

The chapter where she's turning was interesting, though. I think it was the most enjoyable part of the last book.

Anyway, there were no consequences for any of Bella's actions. If she was going to be a vampire, she shouldn't have gotten a kid.

I'm still trying to figure out how the heck did eddy get her pregnant. His body's dead. He doesn't have blood but venom for blood. he doesn't bleed when cut meaning there's no fluid flow in his body. He shouldn't be producing sperm let alone actual working ones. (there's a bunch of question on the actual sex but that's headed into squicky territory so I'll lay off on those)

w00t stone produces sperm. henceforth all women wanting a sperm donor will just go find a rock XD

Buahahahahaha! Oh! I can't breath over here!

That's one of the things that was weird about the books - apparently the vamps could bleed right after they had eaten. They could also gain color, blush, etc. Sooooooooo - instead of their stomach, the blood of the animals goes to their veins? I think Bella even comments once that Ed's skin was warmer right after a hunt.

And if their bodies are so cold, maybe their sperm from human-hood (?) was just frozen until somebody (ahem) thawed it.

Their bodies are cold because they're stone! Literally, even, unless I miss my guess. Oh well, none of the books are suppose to make sense. I guess that's their attraction.

@marph: rofl. thawing them out? XD

That's interesting about the vamps could bleed.... but that means their hearts would have been beating otherwise all the blood would just flow to their feet as that's what gravity will pull them without a heart pumping. Unless those vamps have been doing handstands ever few hours to get of blood clot in the feet. (Oh... so THAT's how eddy even gets it on. Everything was going down anyway. And if you're on a flat surface, the blood would flow to you're center region. Though this means Eddy (and heck all the other male vamps) would need to feed before sex. )

@aisling: twilight's nonmagical vampires [before special abilities] don't make any biological sense. Fine, I get there's venom and that's how they transform ppl. And for some bizarre reason its gonna convert your skin into some type of shiny substance and increase various other physical attributes. I get that. But special abilities? The sex? the working sperm? the sudden blood flow even though there's no heart pumping? waat? x-x;;;

I mean, I checked out one other series [The hollows] with biological vampires [aka non magic] and it made a lot more sense on why things were, like the author actually thought a bit about how to make her vamps more realistic so there wasn't any too large of a biological hole. (And I'm working on a species of vampires that will make as much logical sense as a magical vampire breed can be)

And of course: ALUCARD pwns all. XD

@ KTC - Yay, I find new anime! I'd never heard of that one. Thanx for link.

I guess magic is the whole point of the Twilight vamp. Magic sparkles. Magic blood. Magic baby. A way to make a dark underworld look pretty. It worked, I suppose.

YO! Wuzzup Twilight peeps...i have finished the saga! i wanted to know if and when stephenie meyer is going to come out with midnight sun...please inform me!!!

Shouldn't you be watching her official site then instead of posting here? I don't believe any of us know anything about the release date of the fifth book. Unless of course, one of you is secretly Meyer's publisher.

and it depends if you believe her whining letter about not continuing midnight sun due to someone supposedly leaking the chaps out.

In all, just go to her website and hang out there if you want info.

Hey KTC. Sorry, my computer crashed, or I would've responded sooner. Well, first I read it, vampirism (according to SM)seemed pretty cool. You were pretty, (I'm a girl, so sparkling is fine) you had superpowers, you were indestructible ... I didn't see a downside! (I still thought Bella was annoying and Edward way too serious and controlling, but I was passing over that.) Anyway, my taste in Literature in general improved, and when I reread the series, and then Breaking Dawn, I was horrified, and became a major hater, posting websites with my opinion and joining the hating. After awhile I realized debating fans who weren't changing their minds but screaming "I like it anywya so shut up okies lyke edward is HOTTT!!111" wasn't worth my time, plus spending your life obsessing about a book (whether it's hate or love) is a bad way to spend your free time. So I became a ... as you put it "Meh."

Sorry, no villains. Just opposing characters. I don't blame Victoria or James. James was a tracker. Bella was an animal, and there were a bunch of Vegetarians trying to protect her. Nor do I blame Victoria trying to avenge the death of her one true love. I like the Volturi, though. They are the ones who are really ...well, vampires! The others are just sparkly Meyerpires, with little or no vampire lore to their name. They are more like carnivorous fairies. But the Volturi (well, sometimes) retain the blood-drinking, terrifying elements that made classic vampires worth reading about.

and, yeah, that letter ... I have plenty to say about it, but most of it is put well in this link: http://psa.blastmagazine.com/2008/09/ ... anceled-eh-no-great-loss/

@Seraphina: er...I think you think KTc isn't but KTC is a girl too

Oh, I wasn't sure. I just put that there for the benefit of everyone

Good, there are haters too here. I personally don't care too much about the characters, but I hate the story. It's godawfully BORING!! In fact, it took me a WHOLE MONTH just to get past New Moon because I can't stand reading it for more that 10 minutes a day.

There are some characters that irked me, but the plot bothers me more. What the heck is with the summary in the back of Twilight? If the first few chapters is a mystery on who Edward is, DON'T PRINT "Edward is a vampire" IN THE BACK COVER!!!!!

I also hate the symbolism of the forbidden fruit in the cover. what's so fricking forbidden about them? It's ABNORMAL but NOT FORBIDDEN. come on, the only one who hates it so much thus far is Rosalie. Charlie don't like it much but didn't say "Go friggin break up coz I hate him to hell". The Volturi is ok with it so long Bella got turned. So? What's forbidden? Huh? Tell me.

Jacob could have been a good character if Meyer hadn't used an ultimate deus ex machina to make everything so easy. She purposely made him an asshole so Bella hates him or something. Then he went and imprinted on Renesmee just like that to eliminate the love triangle. WHAT IS WITH THAT WOMAN????? Jacob changed completely in Eclipse and that's annoying. He became someone else.

One more thing: Renesmee. A child between a vampire and a human ISN'T something new. They are called dhampirs and they too have their own properties. Renesmee is something so completely out of the blue. I think Meyer doesn't even know the existence of dhampirs and thought she's being original and mucked up everything.

Logically, she should have aged SLOWER not FASTER. Because humans age like humans do. Vampires are stuck in their age of death. No change + change = slow change. Where's the super-fast growth from?

Then again, Renesmee shouldn't exist in the first place. Meyer explained that vampires have 25 chromosomes, humans have 23, and Renesmee have 24. This is illogical because Meyer said the vampires are "dead" and frozen in time. If they're dead, there are no more chromosomes because there aren't any cells. The venom that replaces all the bodily fluids doesn't carry DNA. Moving on.

25 chromosomes cannot match properly with 23 chromosomes. There are 2 left over, and these two being left over messes up with the pairing of the chromosomes causing the reproduction to fail. That's why species are different. They have different types and/or numbers of chromosomes. To explain Renesmee's existence, she couldn't use science. Because if we think this scientifically, ignoring the facts of the more commonly known dhampirs, this simply can't work. Vampires are above humans in the food chain. Assuming that they are in the same genus of "homo" (humans are homo erectus, vampires are homo something something) because they look similar, this is the same as trying to make a cat and a tiger mate.

Epic fail in plot.

LOL - someone has a case of original Star Trek blues. Stupid science has been around in popular entertainment for decades. Some people think everything's better with a little magic (yet another ephemism for stupid science).

I do agree that New Moon didn't pick up till the last few chapters. I got sick of the Bella angst a few chapters in and began to speed through until I hit the world werewolf of vampire (as she was loathe to speak those words when she was angsty).

@deavas: ROFL hilarious rant. I think a hater put it quite nicely:

Twilight means never having to say you're kidding.

"Meyer explained that vampires have 25 chromosomes, humans have 23, and Renesmee have 24."
^ when did she say this?

"If they're dead, there are no more chromosomes because there aren't any cells. "
^that's illogical since they still have skin cells and muscles. True that the bodily fluids are replace, but human bodies are more than just fluids. I think would would be more logical to ask how does edward produce sperm since he should have stopped all bodily functions. And another logical though icky question is how do they even have sex.

"25 chromosomes cannot match properly with 23 chromosomes. There are 2 left over, and these two being left over messes up with the pairing of the chromosomes causing the reproduction to fail. That's why species are different."

^actually, it is quite possible for these two to have offspring through mutations. It's called Alloploidy.

from wiki:
Allopolyploidy

Allopolyploids are polyploids with chromosomes derived from different species. Precisely it is the result of doubling of chromosome number in an F1 hybrid. Triticale is an example of an allopolyploid, having six chromosome sets,allohexaploid, four from wheat (Triticum turgidum) and two from rye (Secale cereale).

So its quite possible that they could have offspring. whether that offspring is viable or not is the question. But seeing that vampires can have sex regularly with no kids (alice and jasper which btw brings in the question about why female vampires are apparently sterile) we can assume renessme is sterile.

OOppss. Seemed that I missed quite a few

Oh about the chromosomes thing? Meyer stated so in an interview I found. I can't remember where is the interview though.

KTC, wanna bet Meyer making Renesmee's human half able to reproduce? XD