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Re: Abortion #221
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5449 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 6
HP : 520 / 1301
MP : 1807 / 22700
Has is a mistake ridiculous? Do you honestly believe contraceptives are 100% effective? Because by saying a mistake is ridiculous, that's pretty much what you're saying.

A soul? No.it's a bunch of cells. The person comes before anyone else.

Posted on: 2011/5/6 23:20
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Re: Abortion #222
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
No, I'm saying that conceiving a baby cannot be a mistake because the only way is through a natural method meant only for procreation. If a couple conceives a baby then it is their own fault for having sex in the first place, and it is completely wrong to take a life for your own pleasure.

I resent that. I believe that those cells are a person, and a better person than one who might destroy them. That will never change.

Once again, neither of us will convince the other of anything, so we may as well agree to disagree.

Posted on: 2011/5/6 23:31
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Re: Abortion #223
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5449 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 6
HP : 520 / 1301
MP : 1807 / 22700
No, that is not what you're saying. You're saying the opposite whether you want to believe it or not.

I'll agree to disagree.

Posted on: 2011/5/6 23:33
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Re: Abortion #224
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
I know exactly what I'm saying, although I may be saying it badly. I'm saying that, while a couple may not have meant to create a baby and the creation of that baby is a 'mistake', the actual act of sex is meant for creating babies, and so the mistake was in having sex, not creating the baby. If you don't want a baby, don't have sex. Don't steal an innocent life.

Anyways, I'm done now.

Posted on: 2011/5/6 23:38
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Re: Abortion #225
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5449 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 6
HP : 520 / 1301
MP : 1807 / 22700
Yes, by saying that. You say you believe that contraceptives are 100% effective.

Don't be condemn a couple because you can't conceive the idea that a couple can have safe sex and still get pregnant. That's just ludicrous. Mistakes happen. And yes, babies can be mistakes too.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 0:05
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Re: Abortion #226
Offline   shadowshed
  The Brotherhood
gold   1313 Gold
Level : 31
EXP : 13
HP : 150 / 753
MP : 431 / 8860
@iPink: unfortunately people who have sex nowadays never think what's the main purpose of the sex as you think. People do it because of lust, i think. But it's not every of them. Mostly teenager, since they're young and easy tricked. That's why contraceptives are made, to at least prevent them so no offspring created. And again, the contraceptives aren't always success preventing it, and an offspring was created.
Which means, the child *is* a mistake, because the couple don't want it from the beginning.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 0:36


Re: Abortion #227
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
@Mopiece: Even if the contraceptives are not successful, that still does not give the couple the right to have an abortion. Whatever. I'm done talking about this.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 0:48
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Re: Abortion #228
Offline   theone
  Witches and Warlocks
gold   2417 Gold
Level : 39
EXP : 25
HP : 191 / 956
MP : 780 / 13620
So you'd rather two people who have no earning capabilities with an unsucessful contraception have a child? How nice for the child!

Posted on: 2011/5/7 4:52
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Re: Abortion #229
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
@theone: How nice for the child to be dead!

Posted on: 2011/5/7 6:52
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Re: Abortion #230
Offline   Yuffie
  The Brotherhood
gold   1112 Gold
Level : 27
EXP : 13
HP : 130 / 653
MP : 309 / 7003
@iPink: I get what you're saying- death isn't the best thing to ever happen to a child. Sometimes, though, it's better that the child not have to go through extraordinary pain or suffering. Sometimes, when people are very sick and don't stand a chance of recovering, their loved ones have the sick one's life ended so that they won't suffer. It's still not a very pleasant thing to think about, but it would save the person from a lot of unnecessary pain.

I do agree with you, though, that if a couple's contraceptives didn't work then they shouldn't necessarily get an abortion. The child might be a good thing for them, but it might not be. However, if the couple was, say, 14 and 15, then I would understand the couple getting an abortion. The parents don't have the means to care for the child, and the child may grow up in a bad environment. This isn't always the case, though. The decision should be based on the exact situation.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 7:46
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Re: Abortion #231
Offline   kipani
  Amaranthian
gold   216 Gold
Level : 13
EXP : 58
HP : 0 / 314
MP : 70 / 3625
When I got pregnant, we couldn't afford a baby. I didn't get an abortion though. I ended up keeping him and another I had after. We were never really safe though. I have 2 happy healthy children now, a 5 month old and a 2 year old. I'm a stay at home mom and my boyfriend makes 45k a year.

The thing that seems so wrong about abortion is that a fetus's heart is already beating by the time most women find out they're pregnant. But in another instance, nowadays, it seems like half the time I turn on the tv, some woman has killed her child. Much prefer abortion where they're barely conscious before that.

I mean I read about this case before with this Briana Lopez baby.. It gives me nightmares. She didn't even make it to 6 months old.

It's hard for some people to empathize with babies, so.. I guess I'm pro choice after seeing all of that.. What happens to children whose parents obviously didn't want them. Before, I was totally pro life.

And why do you always bring up bacteria KTC? Bacteria has no feelings only a job, and that's what makes something a REAL being imo.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 11:43
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Re: Abortion #232
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5449 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 6
HP : 520 / 1301
MP : 1807 / 22700
@iPink

And how does it not give the couple the right? They actively tried to not get pregnant. It was a mistake. They didn't mean for a child to be conceived, but it did. You have no right to tell someone they shouldn't be allowed to not get an abortion.

And honestly, you sound extremely selfish. You rather a couple get burden rather choose to abort. They tried to avoid it, yet they should still be forced to have it? That makes no sense.

And really you need to drop this sex is for babies idea. Yes, biologically sex makes babies. Today, sex is more for pleasure than babies. A couple shouldn't just not have sex because they don't want a child.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 14:22
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Re: Abortion #233
Offline   KTC
  The Brotherhood
gold   7518 Gold
Level : 59
EXP : 48
HP : 877 / 1462
MP : 2538 / 26624
@kipani:

bacteria: Because I am tired of the whole reason that 'life is sacred' so you shouldn't do abortion. Well guess what, every human on this planet kills millions of other organisms every day. Yet no one ever seems to get this. Life isn't sacred, or everyone should be feeling guilty of being mass murderers of other organisms.

Most of which are completely harmless and are simply at the wrong place and the wrong time.

See where I'm going with this?

Also, forcing a kid onto unwilling parents is a recipe for disaster. That kid's gonna get neglected, abused, and possibly have lots of problems emotionally/mentally. Foster homes are just too hit and miss to be reliable and adoption agencies are hard to navigate.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 18:34
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Re: Abortion #234
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
@Mopiece: I don't think that a couple has a right to kill a child. I cannot fathom how someone could do that. I find the idea that a couple would destroy a life for their own pleasure appalling. Most unintentional pregnancies come from people who did not use contraceptives, and therefore most abortions come from that. For that other percent, they engaged in an act meant for procreation, and although I sympathize that the condom broke or whatever, they still don't have the right to destroy what they created doing an act that is biologically meant for procreation.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 22:25
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Re: Abortion #235
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5449 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 6
HP : 520 / 1301
MP : 1807 / 22700
@iPink

Just because you can't fathom it doesn't mean a couple should lose the right. I can't fathom why people would believe what the Bible says, but I don't stop people from reading it, or believing anything that is written in it.

So you rather a child be raised in an environment where the parents didn't want it? Somehow that is better? That's not going to be a pleasant life. If a couple doesn't want the child, then don't force them to have it. Nothing good is going to come out of that situation. KTC has already explained why adoption isn't a good option.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 22:47
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Re: Abortion #236
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
I disagree with you so completely. Your comparison is absolutely irrelevant; innocent lives are involved with abortion. A couple does not have the right. No one has the right to kill other persons, and that is exactly what abortion is. I have so much disgust for the idea.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 23:05
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Re: Abortion #237
Offline   aislingyngaio
  Amaranthian
gold   14283 Gold
Level : 72
EXP : 45
HP : 1786 / 1786
MP : 4705 / 32527
If that is the case, then why do we have death penalty? Why does the Western world rejoice that Osama is dead? Why is euthanasia an option in some countries? Let's face it, sometimes an early death is better than lingering far longer on this earth than one should. And I can tell you this, right here and now: I wish my parents had never had me. I would rather have been aborted than live through the hell they subjected me through.

And if you can't see the paralel in my first two examples, consider this: the murderer's family and the al-Qaedah respectively believes those people who are put to death are "innocent", heroic even, in some cases. It's all a matter of opinion.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 23:09
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Re: Abortion #238
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
I don't agree with the death penalty, and I do not rejoice at bin Laden's death, though I understand why many do. But I think that abortion is so, so much worse. It is the killing of a child who deserves a chance in this world. Who knows whom they might have become had they been given that chance?

Posted on: 2011/5/7 23:15
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Re: Abortion #239
Offline   Mopiece
  Dragon Lords
gold   5449 Gold
Level : 53
EXP : 6
HP : 520 / 1301
MP : 1807 / 22700
@iPink

My comparison isn't irrelevant. I'm just using your logic.

If there is anyone that doesn't have a right, then it's you. You have no right to tell another couple what to do. It's their life. It's their choice.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 23:24
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Re: Abortion #240
Offline   iPink
  Druids
gold   2058 Gold
Level : 35
EXP : 89
HP : 174 / 872
MP : 617 / 14566
No, it's their baby's life. That should not be their choice.

Posted on: 2011/5/7 23:28
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