it's a fact that they are humans. humans can't bear piglets, or puppies, or joeys so a fetus is human... the result of abortion looks disgusting... the act is disgusting... and the intention of doing it is disgusting...

i respect your opinion... i don't intend to change your point of view. i'm just making my own point here

@abby: those pictures are 'preaching to the prolife' so I'm not surprised you would use them though I'm a bit saddened one would use such a low blow tactic to 'prove' their point.

And I will point to my 2nd-3rd paragraphs concerning many pro-life's obsession with ignoring the woman in question who has to have this thing grow in her for 9 months.

as i said it's my opinion. and it is reality. if other people doesn't care about it, i respect it. i guess in a way i'm preaching for prolife...

humans are given free-will on what to do to their body. abortion, suicide... etc. but for me, i am against it and i will stand by my point.

well, since you put up shock photos. I put up a counter case for a more balanced view:

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Abortion-P ... e-338/abortion-photos.htm

http://www.lifeandlibertyforwomen.org/truth_about_photos.html

Any picture can be easily manipulated into something it isn't. I have enough experience of just cutting/pasting to know it's fairly easy to make something ugly or good. I've seen people's manips where they photoshop a person's head onto another's body and it looked so dang real to the untrained eyes, almost seamless.

Example of expert photoshopping

Please look at any pictures anywhere (and I mean anywhere) with a grain of salt.

There is a short time in which the fetus has not yet developed a heart or a brain... I do not see it as living until there is a heartbeat. So, to me, aborting before the heart is developed is just a wasteful version of taking eggs out of the hen house- those eggs are eaten... this one is just disposed of.

Basset, I think the reason that this topic seems taboo in your school is that someone who is pro-choice can rarely persuade someone who is pro-life to change their mind and vice versa.

That said, I'm strongly pro-choice and pretty much agree with everything Nick said in his post. For myself, I have no moral problem with aborting in the first trimester--the embryo is so little developed at that point--or even into the second trimester if there were medical complications.

I can tell you from experience that it is emotionally and physically wrenching to terminate a pregnancy, as I had to do when I was sixteen (a long time ago), and while I suppose there are some women who can do so callously, I believe most women who go through an abortion never forget the grief of it. Even now if makes me cry to remember it.

Thank goodness I had the choice, though.

Everyone has a right to bring their decisions in life, so if a woman (or girl) feels it is ok to make an abortion and think that it is the only solution to her problem then that's ok with me, cause it's her own life.

I once assisted the doctor while he was making an abortion (I was 4th year in High School). I've seen pretty ugly things connected with medicine, but that was the only time when I got pale, and would go uncontentious if the doctor haven't noticed that I couldn't stand the feeling of helping him do that ugly thing.

I really felt like a murderer that moment.

So yeah I'm against it, if there isn't any medical reason for aborting the child (yes some of you might say that it is not a child, but it is).

@nightingale I'm sorry to hear that something like that have happened to you I have a friend that had no option as well (at least she thought she didn't had) and she had to make that decision. I've supported her, because I'm her friend and friends should stick together, but I haven't changed my opinion for abortion. She still feels terrible about it and wishes she could turn back time, but she couldn't.

Lets not forget that abortion has many consequences as well, that are pretty much dangerous for the girl/woman.

@moon: *skips over fetus part cuz that's ideology talking and I'll just end up repeating myself*

Abortion, if done and followed up correctly should not affect the woman (much like removing wisdom teeth. you need to follow the 'after surgery' instructions or suffer infection as my dad did.). But better to have a trained professional than having the woman try to do it herself. where the infamous 'coat hanger' stories start to thrive.

While rummaging around the net, I found this intriguing paper:

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

"Although few studies have been made of this phenomenon, a study done in 1981 (1) found that 24% of women who had abortions considered the procedure morally wrong, and 7% of women who'd had abortions disagreed with the statement, "Any woman who wants an abortion should be permitted to obtain it legally." A 1994/95 survey (2,3) of nearly 10,000 abortion patients showed 18% of women having abortions are born-again or Evangelical Christians. Many of these women are likely anti-choice. The survey also showed that Catholic women have an abortion rate 29% higher than Protestant women. A Planned Parenthood handbook on abortion notes that nearly half of all abortions are for women who describe themselves as born-again Christian, Evangelical Christian, or Catholic. (4)"

Intriguing. Any thoughts from the prolife side since I can't really see why a prolife person would have abortion. I'm not trying to be 'their side vs our side' but seriously, if one is so against abortion: why would they have it?

When abortion is even considered, it shows that the mother is already under a lot of stress. What is the future of the embryo growing inside her? Adoption? Because let's face it, not all adoption and/or foster cases end well, and orphanages are crowdy and usually underfunded, unlike nursery schools. The child might even come to resent his or her birth. While it's also true that there are exceptional cases whose unlucky births became their strengths, but what about those who end up broken by the hand dealt to them by their mothers? This might change them gradually into criminals because they might feel that it's the only way to survive in the world they were born in. And the upshot of this creates problems in society.

Hi all
>_> <_<
Good that I can actually still see members I can recognize around here.

A decision whether to have or not to have an abortion is no one elses buiseness but the woman's. No one else has the right to dictate her how she should decide.
And even if the woman's reason is something that I wouldn't consider a sufficient reason to have an abortion (e.g. not wanting to quit/interrupt job), I still recognize her right to consider and decide for herself.

I was shocked when I got to know in how many countries there is no opportunity for a [relatively] safe, professional abortion. It's just wrong if in a situation of an unwanted pregnancy a woman/girl is forced to one of these options (like it still is in some countries): a) a) maintain the unwanted pregnancy even if it's devastating her psychically (and physically) b) seek for amateur and possibly dangerous methodes to get rid of it c) try to find a doctor in another country if she has enough money for it d) kill herself (what I beleive in the most extreme situations can occur).

In the places where legal abortions don't exist, I don't understand that noone is trying to do anything about it... A fetus is more important than a fully developed thinking and feeling personality and her right to protect her body?

If we lived in some perfect world where no unwanted pregnancies happen, no health risks with pregnancy and birth happen, no genetic deffects happen, no rape happens, birth control never fails and all fetuses are wanted, then abortions weren't needed, but this is not the reality and pretending that it is will not make it so.

Here where abortions are legal (however, quite expensive, with which I disagree) some militant pro lifers exist and I pretty much hate them and their illogical arguments and hypocrysy... and how I "love" their suggestions of adoption as a solution to everything. 1. It's only a solution to unwanted parenting, not to unwanted pregnancy and birth. 2. Who will take care for the kids who end up in the childrens' homes? I demand that every one or these anti choice protesters adopts at least one child from a childrens' home, if according to them it's a solution. But no, they (a lot of them) won't because once it's out of a person's womb it's not their problem any more... they care goes just to fetuses but not to what happens with them after birth.

[Edit - ad gore pictures, I haven't looked at those that Abby posted, and I'm not so educaded in phases of embryonal development and stuff so much to recognize it, but I've heard/read that a lot of such pictures [on anti-choice sites and such] are actually fake and not representing what they claim to be representing.]

I think they should only choose abortion when an unfortunate event (like rape) happened. Yeah, abortion is wrong, but what would happen if the child's born? Hate her/him because it reminds the woman everyday what happened on her? Or perhaps to the adoption centre?

Yup! I am fore that people shall do that choice by them self’s, If a teenage girl gets pregnant it will not just ruin her future, it probably will ruin that child’s future too, (well some teenager could sure be good mothers, but any way its not good to have child when you are not mature) but I don’t think “abort” shall be used like “preventive”, so it should be good if people started to use “condoms” not just for the risk you have to be “pregnant” but also for the risk for having a “desist” (don’t know if I spelled that right) I know that half of the world are chocked of the word Condom but it is very use full and you can be sure that you don’t get sick or pregnant if they should give out condoms in every school and tell the youth how to use it I guess we should not have so much problem with young mothers, deserted child’s and sick people

Pan.

If this post contains chocking words feel free to delete it or changes the words

I should agree with abortion if the girl has been raped. There's a problem, I think many (young?) men don't want to bother using condoms, they just want to fulfill their desires , so I've noticed many women have to take the pill to avoid to be pregnant unvoluntarily!
Though I'd like if possible, that every pregnancy should be assumed.

I am against child abortion. That was taught to us during the Humanae Vitae in our school. These children have the right to live a good life. I really get so mad when I hear a fetus being abandoned in comfort rooms, streets etc.

Well, I think it's really a question of choice and it only concerns the people involved in it, not only the woman in some cases too, so far it's done with some reflexion...
The future and happiness of the child must also be taken in account.
But I also agree with the fact that it shouldn't be a derivative at taking a correct contraception in order to avoid that.
Some people really use that as a "tomorrow pill" and that is really bad in my opinion.

I haven't and won't take a look at any pictures, since this kind of things are made by people involved in one or the other position and then not neutral at all, for me...

yeah, almost everyday in the news... fetuses are found in the trash, in the toilet, in the church...

yes, abortion is ultimately the mother's choice. just like each one of us chooses what to do with our life.

i guess points of views are mainly influenced by faith. i am strongly against abortion because i believe that we don't have the right to take away another one's life just so you'd live a comfortable life.

For the last point Abby, I totally agree with you. It's certainly not one of the valuable reason for me to go through an abortion...
But there are also situations were I think it's better for both parent(s) and child to do so...

And yes, faith is also a big part of what people think about that too.

Heimdall said:
These children have the right to live a good life. I really get so mad when I hear a fetus being abandoned in comfort rooms, streets etc.

But that's just the point. For so many children born of unwanted pregnancies, they do not get the good life they deserve. And what of all the instances where not fetuses, but full-term infants are left in trash dumpsters etc.? I would think that in most cases, that is not because the mothers are heartless, but because they are scared and/or desperate, not thinking they have other options. It would certainly be better for both the mother and child to terminate the pregnancy, rather than commit actual infanticide.

Yeah. I hope they were born and surrendered to the orphanage. I know one like SOS village.

I'm always and forever pro choice. I can never know all thepossible reasons behind abortions, but I would never say that it's always wrong. In some cases I find it very unethical (for example this one girl I knew that had many abortions, because she didn't want her boyfriend using a condom, because it didn't feel good, and for some reason she couldn't take the pill. I think she should have just given up sex altogether at that point.) But there are situations where it is the least bad option.

If for axample the mother has diabetes, it can be very dangerous for her to carry the child full term. Or if the woman has been raped.

It's not altogether easy here to get an abortion. Or it might be, but there are certain requirements to be filled. I don't remember them all, but there was at least the age thing (if the mother's under 17 or over 40, or you've had more than five children, you can get an abortion, but it's still not forced on anyone), and if it would danger the mother's health to carry the baby, or if there are social or financial obstacles to having the baby, or if the foetus is missing limbs or the head or has some other deformity, or if the mother was raped. But there always has to be one of these requirements filled for someone to get an abortion here.

Then there's of course the morning after pill. Some people consider that abortion... I wouldn't. But it should never be the primary contaception.