Re: love scenes
I really like the way Ursula Le Guin deals with romance in her novels (and short stories), it's something that happens as a part of life, but it's not the most important thing (plus, it's not always heterosexual). She's actually one of my writing 'heroes', though my style is different from hers (and even if it was the same, I could never measure up!).

About sex scenes, I just imply what happened in a few words (i.e. That night I gave myself to him, body and soul [<- from a short story I wrote a while back, inspired by my gran, which is probably one of the reasons I couldn't write it too explicitly]) and the emotional impact 'the deed' had on the persons afterwards.

That reminds me, I should go back to that short story, reread it and rewrite it, maybe it's salvageable...

@ Mae -I love Ursula K.Le Guin's work also. she and Andre Norton were some of my first reasons to go to the library!

My father always subscribed to "Amazing Stories" and one other magagazine of science fiction and fantasey whose name I can't think of, and their short stories were often published there.

My father also was a very witty and intelligent man who always told us that people do not always follow the crowd when it comes to love. People fall often in love with the very person they are 'not supposed' to love. His words were "Love is where you find it!" He passed away in 1990; a true renaissance man.

One of my main charcters is in a same sex relationship which is crucial to the story. In this particular sub-plot it is his love that ultimately redeems him and in the third book (as I have the tree for right now) is the key to 'saving the world'.

Love and passion are easy to write about, sex not so much. the thing that has to be considered is what is necessary to forward the plot? How much is going to be needed to make the story go forward to the ultimate conclusion that is right for those characters? I resort to implying, because each reader's imagination is much more exciting to them than mine is when it comes to sex.

'Straight' characters get that sort of treatment all the time in literature. In my family there are straight couples and gay couples, and each couple is a mini drama in their own right. So I try to write my fantasy in a real a way as is possible, and real life is the only guide I have.

Ursula Le Guin? I thought I've heard of an actress with the same name... I highly doubt it's the same person, but... no matter.

I've seen a lot of couples in various stories that just don't work or romances that seem like it fell out of nowhere (glares at Harry Potter). It just made me so scared to even attempt writing romance or pairings. I'm scared of failing the whole "show don't tell" things. Even though I have all the visuals, I can't put them down to words properly. Scenes seem too rushed because I can't determine where and when to put descriptions and how much.

I also never understand how "falling in love" works being that I never experienced it myself, so I don't dare attempt to write it. I mean, I obsess over being accurate a lot of the time and if I can't get it right I'd rather not do it. So I either avoid the issue of romance entirely or just drop slight hints and gestures and leave everything to the readers' imagination. I mean, I don't want the couples to seem like they end up together just because "Word of God" says so (i.e the author wants it to be so). IMO that would only work on crack pairings, but not relationships that are to be taken seriously. Though it does make me wonder: If I want a crack pairing to be taken seriously, how should I do it?

@d_a - I would say to just keep working at it. Every person has some idea of what they want out of a lover. When you are writing about it you can make it any lover you ever wanted, or conversely every one you ever spurned or were spurned by.

It is a fantasy, even it it is in a realword context unless it is an autobiography (which would be excruciatingly boring in my case). So that is where you must fantasize and stretch yourself. You are good at expressing yourself in your manga. The writing is just an extension of that.

Well, there's always the problem of me bursting into a fit of laughter whenever I write anything remotely fluffy. I feel awkward and then when I'm done I either feel queasy or I roll on the floor laughing like crazy.

@agas:

re: falling in love: I don't get it either having never experienced it myself. Heck, I'm not even sure what love is or how it feels like. Aaffection yes, but love (be it parental, relationship, etc.)? not really.

But, like connie said, you should just keep working on it since how else can one get over fears if they don't confront them?

The only way to get over them is to try them first.

For example: I remember my first stories were ones that made me want to gorge my eyes out. And romance? Ugh, brain bleach bad. Now after writing bout my OTP for a few years? Still hard but I'm much more comfortable with writing romance scenes between them.

edit: heh, and i totally get what you mean by romance = laughing.
A few years back, when my character somehow got into an rp relationship with another character (I have absolutely NO idea how that happened.) I was jittery all the time and felt extremely weird bout basically romancing that character. ._.;;;

slightly off topic: I wonder what my past self would say if my future self told them they would be writing lesbian fiction and enjoy writing them. probably think i was totally bonkers XD

@KTC: LOL, I do try writing them, and then crumpling up the paper and throwing it in the recycle bin when I'm done. They're just so weird and godawful that I can't bear keeping them.

Words hit me harder than pictures. I mean, I can stand drawing or looking at pictures of weird pairings or romance scenes (including slightly kinky/mature scenes), but writing or reading them makes me want to jump off a cliff. The only way I can do it is to write the scenes with only pronouns and no names. If I force myself to use the names... well, I'll need a lot of booze (coca cola and/or coffee) handy and it will take me more than half an hour to write because it drives me mad. Perfect case and point is a scene of my crack OTP (is there such thing as crack OTP?) that I attempted to write some time ago. Took me about 2 hours to write a half-page worth of text and nothing more than holding hands and a hug happens. Don't want to imagine how long it would take me to write a long piece or a snippet that's rated a tad higher.

Replying to the off topic: Same here. My past self would probably freak out if they know that I support yaoi pairings and had seriously considered drawing them countless of times now. I never did draw them, though, because I try to keep myself as sane as I possibly could.
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Thinking of forgetting about writing completely and just focus on drawing =______= I can at least stand drawing hectic scenes, especially romance scenes, without flinching and not laugh like crazy at it until I'm done drawing.

@d_a:
I think almost all romance in book/stories, it's either the pairings are way to cliche or it "seemed like it fell out of nowhere" like what you just said. I wonder why writers don't just leave out romance if they don't know how to write a good one.

@rogue: Because they THINK that what they write is good =_____= Cliche pairings can't be helped, though. I mean, by now almost all sorts of different styles and situation have been done before and it's hard to do something original. The only serious pairing I'm currently attempting to do is the slow kind of relationship. First they're colleagues, then friends, then closer and closer until they get together. I thought that's the best and most realistic kind of relationship so I put it there, but even then I don't know how to do it, so I had it happen "off screen" and in the past. Don't think I have on-screen pairings... Maybe tiny tiny hints that could and probably would give people wrong ideas, but... that's the fun in the whole thing. Those "hints" are hopefully so small that people can't tell apart which is an actual "hint" or just them looking too much into things (crazy shippers do this a lot).

I steer clear of "onscreen" sex in my stories. If you ask me, only really really REALLY good writers can describe the actual act without sinking into cliches.

My stories have their fair share of romance in them, but not the lovey-dovey-I-love-you-you-love-me romance OR the oh-no-maybe-he-doesn't-love-me-I'm-gonna-die-without-him kind. It's kinda hard to describe my preferred kind of romance. For one thing, I prefer romance as a subplot instead of the main story. Also, I like writing about couples interacting when doing normal things, not gushing about each other every minute of the day. I've seen WAY too many people kill their romance by having their characters do that (coughcoughStephanieMeyercoughcough)

@ Esme - That is so true. I have quit reading many a book in the middle of it that was boring in that way.

@agas: drawing vs writing: oo i see. well, good luck with whatever you do

crack OTP= yes, it can happen. rhen/teijal = my otp and its crack XD

@rogue: add on to what agas said, it could be that they simply want to pair people up and do so. Like, they don't want their characters to be just single.

Though frankly, its near impossible for something to be original and not cliche in any way as everything's been done before.

@esme: though how do you describe sex without resorting to cliches of some kind? I can't name anyone who writes without cliches of some kind. But I can name some who write good sex scenes even with cliche terms/acts thrown in lol.

And I agree, gushy ness all the time = me skimming until I get to plot.

This is off topic, but I am curious does any one know a good site for researching proper armor? I am right now finding that the Roman Lorica fits my story best, but maybe there is something out there that combines the best of Lorica Segmentata with slightly better effiency. And I have been trying to find information on actual sword techniques for a hand-and-a-half sword with little success. @ KTC- I like the links you hooked me up with, but I want a bit more detailed information on the use of the sword itself and training with it.

@connie: so roman swords and roman training techniques specifically?

because the weapon/culture defines the move/training set.

long sword/japanese:
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/sword-fighting.html

some roman enthusiasts forums:
http://romanarmytalk.yuku.com/
http://romancombatsports.yuku.com/

Well, thr Roman sword has the wrong length and the grip is for a one handed blade that allows the user to use a shield. My characters need two hands, and a medaeval hand-and-a-half (or bastard) sword fits the needs, and even in close quarters can be effective according to ARMA's page on them: www.thearma.org/medsword.htm but I need some training information. how the weapon's master trains the novice. I trained in a dojo 15 years ago so I need to know how the master teaches the student.

Lorica so far is the closest to what I want because it is lightweight, and can be easily carried (Breast and Back plate rolled around arm and leg guards) when not being worn. I have to make some modifications for it to work in the application I want it for, and I need some ideas. otherwise I will be designing it badly and it will obviously not work which will turn off my readers.

@KTC: Hey... sword-fight techniques! Awesome! Might be useful someday.

And yeah, when I write I steer clear off romances. When I suddenly feel the urge to pair up characters, I either just write random PWP pairing scenes to get it out of my system and decide if I really want it or not later.

@connie: hmm, what time period and which civilization? since lorica would be appropriate for roman times but a bastard sword is definitely medieval. And those had different customs since they have different techniques.

And the rank of training. For example, common foot soldiers would be trained in groups while knights would receive more one on one training.

it is in no time or place here. It is in my world that is its own place, if you know what I mean. I know that they invented the 'steel-can' armor to deal with the medaeval swords, (I majored in history)but the steel-can is bad for a soldier that must walk, as my characters do.

The roman sword also lacks the hand-guard to prevent your opponents sword from hacking your fingers off and other such pleasantness.

The thing that I am struggling right now with is the teaching method more than anything, because in my real life martial arts experience the master shows the novice the way, and it is important to understand what that way is.

japanese katana are too long, for what I envision, so the ever popular bastard sword seems to be the thing.

@connie: so your character is a common soldier? than they would be train in bulk.

drill drill drill. march march march. drill some more until its second nature and you don't stab your partner in the back by accident lol.

unless he's suppose to be a spartan in which case it'll start when they're young.

getting info from deed of paksenarrion: sheepfarmer's daughter which is a fantasy book, but gives a pretty realistic overlook on how a mercenary army recruits, trains, and drills including the unsavory bits like digging the toilet hole.

http://www.webscription.net/chapters/ ... 1601/0743471601.htm?blurb

~chapters 1-2 ish for mostly military training parts. 3-6 = story + military trial and punishment. 7 = who's 'first' in marching. 8-9= more marching and story. 10-11 = ~battle scenes. rest is mostly irrelevant in terms of military technique.

the second book, divided allegiance, got some nice 'how does a footsoldier become a general type of schooling' scenes.

not the best source I agree, but closest I can get to in-depth military training before guns.

Thanks ktc. I have been wresting with this all day since 8:00 am.

The characters are not common soldiers, they are also mages to some extent. But it must work that way. That is how everything else works.

I think I will try to sleep now. Bleah.

tomorrow it will look better, or i will scrap it.