The DEBATE CLUB PRESENTS...




The Debate Club is ready to commence their first debate. We have two teams who will post first their opening statement. This will be followed by an argument and a rebuttal, from each participant.

We ask that you refrain from posting here unless you are on one of the two teams. (All posts, not from the teams, will be removed.)

At the end of the debate we will open a pole where you can vote for which team you feel presented the best arguments. Along with who you thought the best debater was. During the poll we encourage you to comment on the topic and voice your opinions.

Team Awesome Pro: Parents should be responsible
1)PokeGal
2)tsamurai
3)ljspence
4)Oracle
5)serendipity

Team Amazing Con: Children should be responsible
1)Marian
2)s_tyong
3)Wybrich
4)Addicted Emma
5)Lord Maeglin

ljspence is away for a few days and asked me to post her debate opening for her.

Proposed: Parents should be held responsible for the actions of their teenage children.

It is recognized that not all families and parent/child relationships are the same. For the purposes of this discussion, a “parent” will be any person with parental authority over the teen, which may include but is certainly not limited to biological, step, adoptive or foster parents, legal guardians or other parental substitutes. The term “teenager” in this discussion will refer to dependent, unmarried teens between the ages of fourteen to eighteen or until the teenager is considered to have achieved a majority. Within these definitions, it is proposed that parents should be responsible for the actions of their teenage children for the following reasons: 1. Teenagers are not fully capable of making rational decisions, 2. Teenagers have guaranteed human rights under the “Conventions of the Rights of the Child” which must be protected 3. Teenagers who are held to the standards of adults are trapped by adult systems of punishment and can be locked into anti-social and criminal behaviors.

Firstly, teenagers are not fully capable of making rational decisions [1] and need limits, which should be enforced by their parents. Studies of the human brain have shown that teenagers do not think in the same way adults do. Teenagers have more amygdala rather than frontal lobe activity. The amygdala is the more primitive part of the brain where “fight or flight” decisions are made. This means that teenagers are less able to process information and are more likely to use emotional responses to problems. Parental rulemaking and rule enforcing is key to giving teenagers the tools to make good decisions [2]. When a choice violates a rule, the decision is much clearer for the teen and the consequences are understood. This allows teenagers to avoid pitfalls in making decisions which otherwise would be influenced by peer-pressure or cultural signals.

Secondly, teenagers have guaranteed human rights under the “Conventions of the Rights of the Child” which must be protected. This is especially clear in the area of child labor laws. A society, which expects teenage children to have adult responsibilities, has lead to unsafe working conditions, exploitation, sweatshops and child labor abuses [3]. In the United States, laws such as the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) carefully regulate the nature, length and times during which children are allowed to work [4]. Teens who are considered available for adult work and “responsibility” can be recruited as child soldiers [5] or as sex workers [6] or other forms of work, which violate the United Nations “Conventions on the Rights of the Child” [7]. Under this convention, which has been ratified by all United Nations countries except for the United States and Somalia, the ultimate responsibility for the actions of the child rest with the parent. Parents can serve as safety checks on potential sources of exploitation by carefully reviewing and monitoring the legal and contractual aspects of their teen’s life.

Finally, teenagers who are held to the standards of adults are trapped by adult systems of punishment and are locked into anti-social and criminal behaviors. For example in the state of Wisconsin in the United States, there is a high recidivism rate for teens incarcerated in adult prisons [8]. In fact the rate is nearly double the recidivism rate of adults in adult prisons as well as double the rate of teens in juvenile prisons. Although this is just on specific example, this phenomenon is well known and has given rise to the term “Juvienation” for this indoctrination of teenagers into the world of adult criminal behavior. In the most extreme form of holding teenagers to adult standards, teenagers may be subject to the death penalty. This practice, which is highly controversial, has been practiced only in eight countries since 1990 (United States, Congo, Iran, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, China and Yemen) and the last three have since abolished this practice [9]. By giving ultimate responsibility for litigation, representation and reparation to parents, we avoid labeling and tracking teenagers into adult criminal behavior or giving up completely on rehabilitating these teens back as productive members of society.

Clearly, teenagers need some form of insulation from adult situations and responsibility. Teenagers are not as capable as full adults at making good decisions, avoiding exploitive systems and recovering from adult punishments. Responsible parents raise responsible children, not by giving up their own responsibility, but by instead creating clear, protective and age-appropriate avenues for teenagers to gain life skills, knowledge and experiences.

1. “Decision Making is Still a Work in Progress for Teenagers”, Gargi Talukdur, Brain Connection, July 2000.

2. “Understanding Teenage Decision Making”, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, www.education.com/reference/ar ... Ref_Good_Decisions_More/.

3. “What is Child Labor”, Child Labor and the Global Village: Photography for Social Change, http://www.childlaborphotoproject.org/childlabor.html.

4. “Child Labor Rules Advisor”, US Department of Labor, www.dol.gov/elaws/esa/flsa/cl/default.htm.

5. “Child Soldiers”, Human Rights Watch: Child Soldiers, http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/crp/index.htm.

6. “Child Sex Workers”, Human Rights Magazine, Winter 2005, http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/winter05/childsex.html.

7. “Convention on the Rights of the Child”, Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights, United Nations, http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/k2crc.htm.

8. “High Recidivism Rate for Wisconsin Teens in Adult Prison”, February 2008, http://juvienation.wordpress.com/2008 ... n-teens-in-adult-prison/.

9. “Take Death Penalty off Table fore Teen Murders”, James Allen Fox, USA Today, February 2004, http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/ ... 004-02-08-fox-usat_x.htm.

children should be responcible for the things they do bad because they have to learn to deal with it ofcorse they don't need to be responcible for everything but they do have to be for a big pice so they learn of there mistakes

http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/behavior.html

here is a site about learning a child to be responcible

Parents should be responsible for their children’s behavior.

Everyday a scene plays out in homes everywhere. Children will manipulate their parents to achieve a goal. This learned pattern of behavior eventually translates out into the world where children expect others to follow suit. It is the simplest cause and effect relationship. Parents often forget the reality that they are the adult and their child is a child. For the purpose of this debate, a child will be between the ages of 12 and 18. Although current laws label 18 as an adult, the chronological age is not in direct correlation with mental/cognitive capabilities.

Child care facilities exist in almost every part of the world. More and more families are now two-income families which means more and more children are placed in programs designed for children. But how much of behavior modification and education can be expected of these programs? Parents expect schools to teach core education in addition to sex education, behavior, and social skills. How are educators supposed to meet educational guidelines and education children on sex, behavior, and social skills? During early years, much of a teacher’s instruction is geared more towards behavior and social development. However, if the average child in America spends less than 7 hours a day in a school setting and more than 4 hours a day watching television, something is wrong.

Studies show that parents spend an average of under 4 minutes per day in meaningful conversation with their children. Parenting takes more than 4 minutes per day. Ironically, the current trend is to provide families with “down time” so that the parents can relax without worrying about their children. From cruises and vacations that offer child-care-included packages to coffee shops that provide a place where children can play while the adults sit back and relax. Other people interact more with their children than the parents do. This sets the pattern for children as they grow into teenagers. They are used to not being around their parents as much, thus it becomes a challenge for parents to expect appropriate behaviors out of their child. How can you expect what you never took the time to teach in the first place?

Current laws and regulations hold teachers accountable for the education they provide for the children. Consequences can result in anything ranging from teacher dismissal to school closure. Parents have more power than ever to be their child’s advocate. They need to hold themselves as accountable as they hold those who educate and care for their children outside of the home.


Sources:

http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html

http://www.chicagotribune.com/feature ... 0720-parenting-discipline,0,660292.story

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2008/ ... s-for-the-camera-kid-out/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n1_v87/ai_15875474

http://uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=2887

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Children should be responsible for their own actions.


Children (Teenagers) are able to think for themselves. As they continue to grow and make a place for themselves in society they soon realize what they do in public can either do them harm do do them good. Children are autonomous beings and they are going to do what they choose.
Ultimately no one can take credit or the blame for another's behaviour.

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children, because as the parent, they are supposed to teach the crucial, positive, and mandatory lessons of being smart, responsible, and knowing right from wrong. The children learn a lot of things from the parents, so most of the time, whatever certain things children say or do (like profanity, good or bad morals, beliefs, and etc.) were learned from the parent.

http://academypapers.com/downloads/St ... ponsible_and_Socially.pdf

(This is a Adobe document about steps to raising children responsibly. I hope this is some good evidence for my team. )

Our society loves playing the 'Pass the Buck' game, with no one taking responsibility. Most certainly you cannot put the responsibility upon a child whose brain function is incapable of making proper choices. This calls for the "super"vision of the parent. If your child is in custody of the government and comes to harm or gets into trouble, you would place the blame on the gov't. Where is the difference, I ask?

Parent are often grossly guilty of child neglect in many areas. The worst offense is non-supervision. Too many liberties are granted, and children choose to drink, party, and test their limits. If drinking is not allowed by law till the child is 18, it is my surmise that the parent should not allow the child the egress to get drunk. Don't place the blame on the child who doesn't realise the ramifications of the error. Adults DO know better.

http://www.familyresource.com/parenti ... parental-responsibilities

Teenagers- of whom we are truly speaking- need rules, responsibility, and true reaction/punishment for going outside the boundaries. Too many teenagers are not forced to take responsibility for their actions and so become catalysts of mayhem and pain. When they are no longer under their parent's protection- life is suddenly harsh and they are far from prepared.
If a teen became pregnant- why blame an ignorant parent? Some of the most sheltered and parentally supervised/involved teenagers stray off the path once or twice without their parent noticing. This can't be labeled as the parent's fault.

Resources- Observations from lives around me and juvenile psychology text books.

teenagers have a responsibility to their parents, as their parents have already taught them everything they could as a child. teenagers have already been adapted to this training and therefore should be able act better, because they know more. if they do something wrong they know they did something wrong, before and after they did it. teenagers are mature enough to understand what they are doing, and just a step away from being an adult. if parents are blamed for whatever they do, these teenagers may do anything they want, knowing they will not be blamed for it.

the assumption that teenagers should have responsibility because of teaching by their parents makes the incorrect statement that all parents do take the time to pass on critical thinking skills to their children...this simply is not true...if parents are held accountable, they stand a higher chance of taking a more concentrated interest in their child's behaviors/expectation...children will only reach as far as they can stretch...and sometimes parents need to extend that bar a little further to engage their children in positive behavior techniques...

s

When parents take an active and complete control of the structure and rules of their children's lives it has a positive effect on how they turn out. I use as example the Amish People who raise children by the entire community. Children are constantly supervised and instructed from birth until the age of 17. At this time they are given the choice of leaving the community (Rumspringa) to see what the world has to offer. Over 80% of their children return to the life they were raised to. Whether they stay or go, these children are not prone to criminal behavior.

If these parents can do so well at raising children, they are surely an example of what all parents should be able to do. Hence I feel it is the parents who have first and foremost gone astray of their responsibility. It is not the fault of the child.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa


Edit: On Tuesday I am going to add the poll and ask for community opinions.

Quote:
But as stated in my opening argument, even the most carefully taught, sheltered, and supervised of offspring can stray off the teachings of their parents from time to time without being caught. Just because a parent teaches their child everything that needs to be known, doesn't mean the child will listen.
Should a parent give their child no room to make their own mistakes in order to know absolutely everything going on? No. Parents train their children for the real world. By the time a person is in their teenage years, some of the responsibility must be laid on the child. Trust must be earned and given. When that trust is betrayed, it cannot be called the parents' fault just because they were not spying on their child's every move.
Quote:
Brainwashing should not be made equal to child-raising. A 17 year old completely untrained for the world outside their community is most likely going to be scared by the real world and return home. 17 year olds even somewhat trained for the real world are often scared by it. Returning to home should not be used as an illustration of good raising- it just does not mesh with other conceptions of this world.

My final word on the matter is one persons brainwashing is another persons clean brain
Who's to say that the Amish don't lead a fulfilling happy lifestyle? Without the millions of things that fill our days and clutter our lives to the point that crime is rampant even among children?


The debate is open to the community for discussion. Please share your opinions.

nice debating

so we post here or in another thread?

I think parents should be held for their kids actions until they're not kids (ie. can think and act rationally and know what the heck their doing) anymore. Where that line is though, is very hard to decide. But since this isn't really the debate (where this line is) I'll skip it.

Kids (especially young ones) are highly impressionable. It's up to the parents (and siblings) to provide the necessary teachings to prepare the kid for life. Chances are: if you have good parents (restraint love, discipline,etc.) when your young, you're gonna turn out pretty well. If not, you won't.

I'll use AQ's system as a 'metaphor'. On that game: you have a character and you have to spread out the stats right when you're level 1 so you will end up with a great character when it 'matures' to level 130. If you messed up the stats when you were level 1, you're gonna get a lousy character at level 100.

i think that children should be responsible for their actions. of course, their parents are factors in their behavior, but with the influences of the world, like television, the internet, and people and places you encounter everyday, classmates and friends, some children are swayed easily. some have their principles and morals rooted deep into their minds, but the influence of the world still affects them somehow.

i know a lot of kids who have had good parents and good households, but because of influences and peer pressure screw up their life in varying degrees.

also, most parents explain to their children what is right and what is wrong while they are still young, but again, the world influences them. some parents don't even know how their kids behave when out of view and earshot, because their children know when they're doing something wrong and hide it from the parents the best they can with the help of friends. so the 'rents think their kid is doing alright, until something bad happens and they find that everything was an illusion.

Both sides brought up some good points, but I would have to agree with the parents should be responsible and by responsible I don't mean the parents are the only ones that have to deal with the consequences while the children get off free. The parents' responsibility lies in teaching and setting rules for the children to follow. I like the point that ljspence brought up in her open about teenager not being fully capable of making rational decisions because their brain is still developing. During this period, it is necessary for the parents to continue raising and teaching their children.

While I do agree that teenage children should accept the consequences of the actions, I did not think that this is the same as the children should be responsible while the parents are not. There does come a point where the parents have to let the children make their decisions and mistakes but that is just part of raising a children into an adult.

Edit: I'm kinda curious if an individual's age would make a different in how people vote on this.

Question: I'm assuming those that took part in it shouldn't vote?

Parents should be resposible.

If the child feels left out by the parents, most likely they will do bad things to get their attention. That's not the kids fault. It's the parents. True, you need to work and all, but take a hard at work mom for example. If your so busy at work, that isn't the kids fault. It's not their fault they need to eat and have a shelter and clothing. If you decided that you were going to have a kid, you should've thought about it. It takes responsibility to raise a child. You have to give them rules-ones that they will follow and understand. Punishments need to be firm and gentle at the same time. You can't give them a spanking if they had candy before dinner, but you can't spank them if they commited murder either. You need to have a punishment equal to the "crime". That's why I believe parents should be responsible for their children's actions.

Parents are responsible for their parenting, which may or may not be reflected in the actions of their children. Prove a bad action by the child is a direct result of something their parent(s) have done or haven't done, the parent(s) share in the responsibility of that bad act.

If a child commits a bad act despite parental efforts to properly raise the child, it's all on the child.

The voting is open to everyone Emma The vote is for the team that best represented their points and swayed the readers.